A Common Sense Approach to Middle East Refugees.

[Kung Wu]

Wake me up when you want to stop playing games and talk.

What's the number? You are always asking everyone else for numbers. What's the number that's acceptable? How many Americans get to die on American soil due to terrorist activity?

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I think defining such a number is very difficult, and I don't have an exact number.

1 per year, in the world we live in, would be wonderful, relatively speaking.
10,000 per year would be horrible.
I think 1,000 per year would be too high.
I think 500 per year would be too high.
I don't know where (between 1 and 500) I would draw a line if forced to be precise. I would be open to opinions from others.

The thing I don't understand is what you are getting at. If we define "acceptable" as 10 deaths per year, what does that mean when we hit 11? I'm sure there are many different paths that would be suggested for "what to do next".

I wish you would be willing to discuss the refugees, because that is an actual "what to DO" that we face, not a generic "how many deaths is acceptable".

[wufan]

I think defining such a number is very difficult, and I don't have an exact number.

1 per year, in the world we live in, would be wonderful, relatively speaking.
10,000 per year would be horrible.
I think 1,000 per year would be too high.
I think 500 per year would be too high.
I don't know where (between 1 and 500) I would draw a line if forced to be precise. I would be open to opinions from others.

The thing I don't understand is what you are getting at. If we define "acceptable" as 10 deaths per year, what does that mean when we hit 11? I'm sure there are many different paths that would be suggested for "what to do next".

I wish you would be willing to discuss the refugees, because that is an actual "what to DO" that we face, not a generic "how many deaths is acceptable".

I'm all for not allowing in refugees from Syria.

[shocka khan]

Terrorist shot 5 people in Minneapolis last night. But they werent middle eastern so I assume this is okay

I agree with that sentiment.

While we're on the subject, you might want to read this:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/nra-guns-second-amendment-106856

Pretty interesting analysis of Supreme Court cases and how the NRA has manipulated public opinion and the judicial system to get the answer they want.

I remember when the NRA promoted gun safety and getting families involved in shooting as a family activity. As far as I can see, their main outreach activities seem to be trying to represent gun manufacturers, as opposed to gun owners.

But pulling this post back to the general premise of the thread, we have many, many people who are more scared of foreigners with or without a weapon than we are of Americans with guns, even though we have very few restrictions on allowing people who probably shouldn't have them (due to mental conditions). If we want to apply some rigid preconditions to become an American citizen, why don't we have some preconditions (besides the rather weak ones we have now as regards people who have a background of mental instability being able to purchase or own a gun).

Almost all of the Paris attackers were naturalized citizens. In the previous attacks in France, all the perps were naturalized citizens (of Europe, mostly from Belgium).

[MoValley John]

Almost all of the Paris attackers were naturalized citizens. In the previous attacks in France, all the perps were naturalized citizens (of Europe, mostly from Belgium).

While you're on you anti gun crusade, please tell me how these naturalized French citizens were able to procure AK-47's in a country that has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world? Also answer for me how France, with their restrictive gun control, can also be a world leader in gun smuggling?

This isn't a jab at you, I really want to know how these guys got the guns and how the underground gun trade got so big in France. I would also like to know why none of this is being talked about. Seems to me that if people really think guns are the problem, when something like this happens in Paris, some of the first questions should be, who has the guns, how did they get them, where did they come from and how do we stop these people from getting them in the future?

[Shocker-maniac]

Ok

While you're on you anti gun crusade, please tell me how these naturalized French citizens were able to procure AK-47's in a country that has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the world?

Cuz they're terrorists.

FACT OF LIFE: Criminals and terrorists do not obey gun laws regardless of how restrictive they are.

Do the liberals realize with 3D printing how easy it is for people to procure firearms?

[Kung Wu]

He was determined to impregnate the Creighton cheerleaders, so in 18 years, enrollment at Creighton would drop, and Wichita State would have a busload of freshman Shockers coming from Omaha. Unfortunately, his plan was flawed, as Creighton was on spring break. Since he was already in Council Bluffs and had a case of Magnums, he used Doritos, Bud Light and a slim Jims to nail all the cheerleaders from Iowa Western Community College.

Great story. I'm TOTALLY bought in. I believe every last word. But I have to know:

What were the rubbers for?

[MoValley John]

Great story. I'm TOTALLY bought in. I believe every last word. But I have to know:

What were the rubbers for?

He was going to warm up on the girls from the Spearmint Rhino, near the airport.

[SB Shock]

There are stories being pushed in the French media that several armed citizens in the restaurant that stopped terrorist before they could do more damaged - only problem they were organized crime:

According to French media in a typical restaurant in the town, which at the time was crowded shortly after 3130 hours two armed assailants they entered and began firing.
But according to journalist Armand Stroke of the Europe Radio 1 radio station, who was in this restaurant, when the attack rose 3 people at a table, drew their weapons and brutally killed the two attackers.



Immediately several elements of the French police could arrest these heroes who managed a possible slaughter by killing two members of the terrorist group ISIS.
French police reported these two unsung heroes are from Columbia and were identified as cartel operators in northern Columbia.

http://www.hechoinformativo.com/2015/11/3-narcos-colombianos-detienen-un-ataque.html?m=1

[shocka khan]

Ok

Cuz they're terrorists.

FACT OF LIFE: Criminals and terrorists do not obey gun laws regardless of how restrictive they are.

Do the liberals realize with 3D printing how easy it is for people to procure firearms?

Yes, I know how easy it is. I read the article where the guy made an AR-15 with one of those 3D printers. IIRC, he still had to buy a kit, which I believe had the receiver.

Also IIRC, it was in Wired magazine.

I still don't get the fact that you conservatives are scared shitless of a 70 year old Syrian female refugee let in here legally, but think it's perfectly fine for a 20 year old white paranoid schizophrenic male to have a gun. Someone, say, like Dylan Roof.

I think that fact is very comical. It shows the fear and loathing of a conservative mind. It also shows the mental gymnastics that conservatives have to go through to try to find justification for their twisted ideas that someone (like the NRA, for instance) has manipulated them into. Sort of like the bandwagon effect. You can't be a good conservative unless you support the NRA, so you automatically do it. The liberals are like that with the ACLU or any number of other organizations that target their political lobbying efforts toward an issue.

As I've said a number of times before, I'm a not a liberal, I'm a moderate. But Kansas is so conservative that most people automatically think I'm a liberal.

[wufan]

Yes, I know how easy it is. I read the article where the guy made an AR-15 with one of those 3D printers. IIRC, he still had to buy a kit, which I believe had the receiver.

Also IIRC, it was in Wired magazine.

I still don't get the fact that you conservatives are scared shitless of a 70 year old Syrian female refugee let in here legally, but think it's perfectly fine for a 20 year old white paranoid schizophrenic male to have a gun. Someone, say, like Dylan Roof.

I think that fact is very comical. It shows the fear and loathing of a conservative mind. It also shows the mental gymnastics that conservatives have to go through to try to find justification for their twisted ideas that someone (like the NRA, for instance) has manipulated them into. Sort of like the bandwagon effect. You can't be a good conservative unless you support the NRA, so you automatically do it. The liberals are like that with the ACLU or any number of other organizations that target their political lobbying efforts toward an issue.

As I've said a number of times before, I'm a not a liberal, I'm a moderate. But Kansas is so conservative that most people automatically think I'm a liberal.

IMO, your anti gun crusade has warped your thinking such that every action that occurs is directly related to gun loving conservatives. A more rationale view would show that the attacks in Paris have nothing to do with American gun control laws. Even if you wanted to say Paris is an example of the need for more gun control laws in the US, it doesn't hold water. You should do your best to separate these two distinct and unrelated issues.

[shocka khan]

IMO, your anti gun crusade has warped your thinking such that every action that occurs is directly related to gun loving conservatives. A more rationale view would show that the attacks in Paris have nothing to do with American gun control laws. Even if you wanted to say Paris is an example of the need for more gun control laws in the US, it doesn't hold water. You should do your best to separate these two distinct and unrelated issues.

You know, for someone who has a graduate degree in science, you don't seem to posess many critical thinking skills.

First you said that automatic rifles were illegal. I had to correct you on that.

Now you're saying I'm anti gun. I'm not. I am not pro-NRA, but I'm not anti gun. I think CHL's are a good thing. I have family and friends that own guns. I also have bad eyes (double cornea transplant) most of my life so I PERSONALLY believed that I would probably cause more trouble with a gun that I would get benefit. So even though I don't personally own a gun, it's not like I have not thought about it. Again, I will reiterate that the main reason I don't own a gun is my girlfriend. I've also stated that here (and will probably have to again and again).

So, since you seem to be the main protagonist of the 'I'm scared of 70 year old muslim grandmothers but think every nut ought to be able to own a gun so they can shoot the community up if they go off the tracks' club, just exactly why are you so afraid of them?

[wufan]

You know, for someone who has a graduate degree in science, you don't seem to posess many critical thinking skills.

First you said that automatic rifles were illegal. I had to correct you on that.

Now you're saying I'm anti gun. I'm not. I am not pro-NRA, but I'm not anti gun. I think CHL's are a good thing. I have family and friends that own guns. I also have bad eyes (double cornea transplant) most of my life so I PERSONALLY believed that I would probably cause more trouble with a gun that I would get benefit. So even though I don't personally own a gun, it's not like I have not thought about it. Again, I will reiterate that the main reason I don't own a gun is my girlfriend. I've also stated that here (and will probably have to again and again).

So, since you seem to be the main protagonist of the 'I'm scared of 70 year old muslim grandmothers but think every nut ought to be able to own a gun so they can shoot the community up if they go off the tracks' club, just exactly why are you so afraid of them?

My apologies for missing your pro gun/anti NRA agenda. The legal/illegal automatic weapons is a hair splitting argument. We both agree that it IS possible to legally own automatic weapons in the US and that it is incredibly difficult to do so. If you want to claim "gotcha" on that, have at it. The bottom line is that the NRA has nothing to do with Paris. It makes it nearly impossible to argue or agree with your sentiments on the attacks because you keep bringing in an irrelevant topic.

[wufan]

So, since you seem to be the main protagonist of the 'I'm scared of 70 year old muslim grandmothers but think every nut ought to be able to own a gun so they can shoot the community up if they go off the tracks' club, just exactly why are you so afraid of them?

I will answer this as best I can. I'm not scared of 70 year old Muslim grandmothers. I'm not scared of Muslims period. My uncle is Muslim. I work with Muslims. I think Muslims are generally good people that I disagree with on a religious basis. I am not afraid of grandma's. I have two of them. I have met many grandmas and they are generally nice people.

I do not believe that every nut should be able to own a gun and I am against nuts owning guns. I do not want anybody to shoot up the community they live in.

I am afraid of any nut (foreign or domestic) that goes off the tracks. I believe in my right to defend myself against these nuts.

[shocka khan]

My apologies for missing your pro gun/anti NRA agenda. The legal/illegal automatic weapons is a hair splitting argument. We both agree that it IS possible to legally own automatic weapons in the US and that it is incredibly difficult to do so. If you want to claim "gotcha" on that, have at it. The bottom line is that the NRA has nothing to do with Paris. It makes it nearly impossible to argue or agree with your sentiments on the attacks because you keep bringing in an irrelevant topic.

I believe that the title of this thread is 'A Common Sense Approach to Middle East Refugees', and as such doesn't deal with the situation in Paris. I think you're getting a little off-topic. The context of the discussion is whether or not we (i.e. the United States) should be admitting these Refugees. IIRC there is already a thread on the Paris terrorist attacks.

And I agree, the NRA has nothing to do with Paris, I'm just trying to understand how a person's mind can accommodate the notion of a 70 year old female refugee as a threat and yet fail to grasp that a 20 year-old white male paranoid schitzophrenic with a legal gun is not also a threat.

In fact, I'd say the 20 year old is a much more real threat because he already has a labor saving device designed to kill people. I'd like to know why you disagree.

I hope you understand my notion that you're adamantly opposed to allowing the 70 year old female refugee into our country because she is a threat to you, correct?