Sanders - Hit Everybody

[pinstripers]

Bernie will visit Kansas on Thursday, stopping in.........you guessed it.....Lawrence.

[tropicalshox]

Here's a fun article about the postal service. You will be shocked about what they delivered in their first couple of years. But #5 has to do with one of Bernie's "radical" ideas.

http://www.upworthy.com/4-weird-facts-about-the-post-office-and-1-that-could-help-save-the-economy?c=utw2&utm_content=buffer6c2ed&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[Aargh]

Just some observations. Please don't hang me for making observations.

Sanders seems to have about the same level of national support as Cruz. Cruz MIGHT be a little ahead of Sanders in the overall population, but the difference between them is probably not statistically significant considering they're the second choice in their parties.

Sanders has been gaining on Hillary lately. That's being attributed to new voter registrations and younger voters supporting Sanders. The Socialist candidate seems to be driving voter registration and getting younger voters to the polls.

It's always been my political viewpoint that if poor people vote, they will eventually elect Socialist candidates. As increasing numbers of the population no longer see themselves as middle class, those people will no longer recognize themselves as Republican voters.

In a bizarre twist, Hillary's campaign, based on restoring the middle class, benefits the Republican party. The middle class tends toward voting Republican. If those voters see themselves as leaving the middle class and joining a lower tier in the economy, they are more likely to vote for more socialist-leaning candidates.

[WuDrWu]

Here's a fun article about the postal service. You will be shocked about what they delivered in their first couple of years. But #5 has to do with one of Bernie's "radical" ideas.

http://www.upworthy.com/4-weird-fact...ampaign=buffer

I need a meme generator with that one cartoon guy, because I'm not sure if you're serious here or not. Are you inferring that returning banking to the USPS will drive the Speedy Cash out of rural Decatur County?

[WuDrWu]

Here's a fun article about the postal service. You will be shocked about what they delivered in their first couple of years. But #5 has to do with one of Bernie's "radical" ideas.

http://www.upworthy.com/4-weird-fact...ampaign=buffer

A few counters to the falsehoods in that article.

The USPS is in fact bolstered by taxpayer money. For starters, they pay no state and local property and real estate taxes, no vehicle reg fees, tolls and parking tickets, to the tune of about 2 billion per year. I'm just using liberal thinking here, so maybe I'm wrong. :banghead:

They borrow money from the Fed at the subsidized rate of 1.2% Any of you getting that deal?

They have a government mandated monopoly on delivery to mailboxes. No competition. Productivity is about 25% of other delivery systems.

Labor accounts for about 80% of their costs. They pay rates and benefits FAR above their competition, mostly because of these mentioned subsidies. It's INSANE what a mail carrier gets paid, and their benefit package. And 90% of it is union.

[JackStraw]

Just a few counters to the falsehoods in DrWu's article ....... For the record , I've been retired for 11 yrs , so a bit out of touch , but did have 30+ yrs service as a mail carrier .....

1.Productivity is about 25% of other delivery systems.---- that's a BS political statement ..... Define productivity , show the charts ..... The Postal Service delivers over 40 % of the entire world volume ......

2. No competition --- only to the inside of your USPS mail box , plenty of competition in every thing else...... Do you really think people want to have their mailbox open for just anybody to stuff things in ..... Around here if you have all kinds of people coming up on your porch and messing around , they might get shot ......

3. They pay rates and benefits FAR above their competition --- again , a BS right wing talking point , and has been for 40 yrs.... When I worked , the top pay for carriers was less than the top pay for UPS drivers....... With salary and benefits together , we were a little below Boeing , and about even with Beech .......

4. 90% of it is union. ---- prob true , but out of all those union thugs , 70-80 % are republicans ....... and like they say , if you're scared of a union person , how are you going to be able to face Hillary ??

5. It's INSANE what a mail carrier gets paid ---- You big whiner , go down and sign up......... They have been hiring lately ....... They need some big tough guys like you , currently only about 50 % can last the first year .......

6. Go Shocks , and I'll hang up and listen ..........

[Kung Wu]

I thought the picture of the mules was cute.

[tropicalshox]

Thanks @JackaStraw for delivering the mail. Tough job and you were worth more than you were paid. I hope you are enjoying your well earned retirement.

[WuDrWu]

Just a few counters to the falsehoods in DrWu's article ....... For the record , I've been retired for 11 yrs , so a bit out of touch , but did have 30+ yrs service as a mail carrier .....

1.Productivity is about 25% of other delivery systems.---- that's a BS political statement ..... Define productivity , show the charts ..... The Postal Service delivers over 40 % of the entire world volume ......

2. No competition --- only to the inside of your USPS mail box , plenty of competition in every thing else...... Do you really think people want to have their mailbox open for just anybody to stuff things in ..... Around here if you have all kinds of people coming up on your porch and messing around , they might get shot ......

3. They pay rates and benefits FAR above their competition --- again , a BS right wing talking point , and has been for 40 yrs.... When I worked , the top pay for carriers was less than the top pay for UPS drivers....... With salary and benefits together , we were a little below Boeing , and about even with Beech .......

4. 90% of it is union. ---- prob true , but out of all those union thugs , 70-80 % are republicans ....... and like they say , if you're scared of a union person , how are you going to be able to face Hillary ??

5. It's INSANE what a mail carrier gets paid ---- You big whiner , go down and sign up......... They have been hiring lately ....... They need some big tough guys like you , currently only about 50 % can last the first year .......

6. Go Shocks , and I'll hang up and listen ..........

Of course you'll hang up and listen. Please do so while I shred your falsehoods.

1. First, I admit, I did make a mistake about the productivity. I intended to say the growth of productivity, year to year, is about 1/4 of the private sector. With essentially zero incentive to do better, they don't.

2. Ooooo...the humanity of someone else putting something in the mailbox.....would we ever survive? And yes, the USPS DOES HAVE a government mandated monopoly.

3. Perhaps, but last time I checked, the mailman wasn't hauling 40 pound boxes all that often. And does the UPS guy get paid by the step? Because I've heard the mailman gripe to high heaven about having to come inside the business.

4. Nice stat out of nowhere. Link? I'd say I know 11-12 postal workers. In the reddest of red states, everyone of them card carry bleeding heart lockstep no thought process or individual thinking Democrat libs. EVERYONE of them. And what does that have to do with facing Hil?

5. Insane salaries. The average salary for a clerk.....a CLERK working the counter is $53000/year BEFORE BENEFITS. $53000!!!! Do you have ANY IDEA how many retail managers don't make that kind of bank? And those people actually have to THINK and REACT. And EVERY ONE OF THEM works under the threat of losing their job tomorrow, whereas a USPS worker has to steal or kill to get fired. Now, Let's talk benefits....Leave, for starters. 13 vacation days, 10 holidays, almost 10 sick days per year. When the hell do you actually work?!! Oh and that's for the NEWBIES lol
Now, I'm not even talking about the retirement program (what is that, about a million or 2 for 25 years of service?) endless breaks as if you're a surgeon or heavy lift operator and massive shift differential and OT payments.

Yes, that's insane ESPECIALLY WHEN YOUR "COMPANY" is hemorrhaging money to the tune of several BILLION dollars a year.

[WuDrWu]

Thanks @JackaStraw for delivering the mail. Tough job and you were worth more than you were paid. I hope you are enjoying your well earned retirement.

What a typical uninformed "fair is fair" comment. You have NO idea what work is my friend.

[Ta Town Shocker]

While we're on the topic of the post office, I would like to give the on campus branch at WSU props. The best customer service I've ever experienced at any post office was when I went in to get a passport a few weeks back. I was in and out within 15 minutes. I did have the form prefilled and printed but they reviewed it, took the photo and processed it in a flash. The only downside is parking. I have no idea where you legally park anywhere on campus.

[MoValley John]

While we're on the topic of the post office

Post Office*is a kissing game played by boys and girls at parties. It has been referred to in popular culture since at least the 1880s. The group playing is divided into two groups – typically a girl group and a boy group. One group goes into another room, such as a bedroom, which is called "the post office". To play, each person from the other group individually visits "the post office". Once there, they get a kiss from everyone in the room. They then return to the original room. Once everyone in the first group has taken a turn, the other group begins sending members to the first room.

[jdshock]

2. Ooooo...the humanity of someone else putting something in the mailbox.....would we ever survive? And yes, the USPS DOES HAVE a government mandated monopoly.
...
Yes, that's insane ESPECIALLY WHEN YOUR "COMPANY" is hemorrhaging money to the tune of several BILLION dollars a year.

It is true that USPS has a government mandated monopoly, but it's because every economic model predicts that is more efficient. Mail delivery is an excellent example of a natural monopoly. It has low variable costs (the cost of delivering to the next house on the block) and very high fixed costs (buildings, trucks, etc.). In theory, it doesn't make any sense to have two companies delivering to the same neighborhood. It just raises costs for everyone. Because of that, whether or not the organization is "hemorrhaging" money is a poor measure of success. It is possible that a two billion dollar (assuming that were actually the government subsidy. There are a variety of reasons your stat is probably inflated. The federal government is not writing a $10 check for every parking ticket, they just don't have to pay parking tickets. There's no reason to believe someone else would have parked there illegally and paid a $10 ticket. For most of your included costs, it isn't actual money that is being spent. But that's really a side point). But assuming it really is a two billion dollar subsidy, that doesn't necessarily mean it is a poor system. It might still be much cheaper as a whole.

That said, there are a variety of reasons one might still oppose the system. First and foremost, your political view might mean that you oppose a larger government even when it is preferable or more efficient since some individuals would likely be worse off (see health care). Second, our current system loses many of the benefits of the natural monopoly specifically because there is competition. The truth is that there is a monopoly only for the mailbox itself. There are a bunch of shipping options in the market, though. Third, it's possible that the government is running the USPS inefficiently. If your statistic on salaries is accurate, that is a decent sign that the government, at least on some level, is running the organization inefficiently.

It's just not fair to act like a government subsidy by itself means the organization is inefficient. The government subsidy and mandated monopoly are both created with the purpose of establishing one strong competitor.

[wu_shizzle]

It is true that USPS has a government mandated monopoly, but it's because every economic model predicts that is more efficient. Mail delivery is an excellent example of a natural monopoly. It has low variable costs (the cost of delivering to the next house on the block) and very high fixed costs (buildings, trucks, etc.). In theory, it doesn't make any sense to have two companies delivering to the same neighborhood. It just raises costs for everyone. Because of that, whether or not the organization is "hemorrhaging" money is a poor measure of success. It is possible that a two billion dollar (assuming that were actually the government subsidy. There are a variety of reasons your stat is probably inflated. The federal government is not writing a $10 check for every parking ticket, they just don't have to pay parking tickets. There's no reason to believe someone else would have parked there illegally and paid a $10 ticket. For most of your included costs, it isn't actual money that is being spent. But that's really a side point). But assuming it really is a two billion dollar subsidy, that doesn't necessarily mean it is a poor system. It might still be much cheaper as a whole.

That said, there are a variety of reasons one might still oppose the system. First and foremost, your political view might mean that you oppose a larger government even when it is preferable or more efficient since some individuals would likely be worse off (see health care). Second, our current system loses many of the benefits of the natural monopoly specifically because there is competition. The truth is that there is a monopoly only for the mailbox itself. There are a bunch of shipping options in the market, though. Third, it's possible that the government is running the USPS inefficiently. If your statistic on salaries is accurate, that is a decent sign that the government, at least on some level, is running the organization inefficiently.

It's just not fair to act like a government subsidy by itself means the organization is inefficient. The government subsidy and mandated monopoly are both created with the purpose of establishing one strong competitor.

If the USPS was just a government created and protected monopoly that would be one thing. I don't disagree there are efficiencies to postal delivery like other utilities such as Power, Water and Gas.

The main problem with the USPS and the source of their financial problems are the wages they pay due to collective bargaining. Their pensions are financially unsustainable but as long as they are backed by the american taxpayer, there is no motivation to change.

[Play Angry]

The average salary for a clerk.....a CLERK working the counter is $53000/year BEFORE BENEFITS. $53000!!!!

I don't doubt the depth of your knowledge on this issue, but is that an average for NYC or something? My aunt has this exact job and makes about $40k in a city larger and more expensive than Wichita despite having held the same position for somewhere between 5 and 10 years. This chart (it looks like it is an unofficial aggregator similar to glassdoor) indicates the $53k number would be in the 80th percentile of salaries for that position with USPS and the range for the middle three quintiles is ~$29k - $53k.

Their pensions are financially unsustainable but as long as they are backed by the american taxpayer, there is no motivation to change.

Nailed it.