Defunding/Abolishing Police

[MoValley John]

Of the firemen I know, there is more available labor than open positions. The only way to get on the staff is to be in good with the chief at the time a position opens up. They all became volunteer firemen and EMTs while waiting to get on the force.

My knowledge is limited to a handful of individuals on a handful of stations, so take it for what it’s worth.

Wither way, is there any reason you couldn’t do 4 month rotations across these emergency services?

I don't think police and fire work the same at all. Training would be a nightmare. Laws regarding protection of rights apply to citizens vary between fire and police. Trespassing laws are quite different between police and fire, as well as many others. How do you keep those roles in check? Why did the EMT sieze my pot and why did I get ticketed for it it when there were no "cops" on scene.

In theory, probably a good idea, in practice, probably not so much. Rotating duties amongst police, and rotating duties amongst fire personnel is probably a great idea.

[wufan]

Really? That isn't the way it works in Omaha, and I bet most other places. All EMT's in Omaha are firefighters first. They become EMT's as firemen, already fighting fires, pass the department's EMT classes, are certified and are assigned to a squad in a station. They still respond to fires. Nurses are nurses. While there are firemen that join the department already certified EMT's, they join as firemen.

Of the firemen I know, there is more available labor than open positions. The only way to get on the staff is to be in good with the chief at the time a position opens up. They all became volunteer firemen and EMTs while waiting to get on the force.

My knowledge is limited to a handful of individuals on a handful of stations, so take it for what it’s worth.

Wither way, is there any reason you couldn’t do 4 month rotations across these emergency services?

[MoValley John]

https://youtu.be/lGjxA7bw2Zo

[MoValley John]

Trust me, those don’t exist. All EMTs are wanna be fireman or nurses that haven’t made it yet or won’t make it at all.

Really? That isn't the way it works in Omaha, and I bet most other places. All EMT's in Omaha are firefighters first. They become EMT's as firemen, already fighting fires, pass the department's EMT classes, are certified and are assigned to a squad in a station. They still respond to fires. Nurses are nurses. While there are firemen that join the department already certified EMT's, they join as firemen.

[ShockerPrez]

Trust me, those don’t exist. All EMTs are wanna be fireman or nurses that haven’t made it yet or won’t make it at all.

Unless it's David Lee Roth.

[wufan]

When I need EMTs, I want a seasoned experts. :)

Trust me, those don’t exist. All EMTs are wanna be fireman or nurses that haven’t made it yet or won’t make it at all.

[wufan]

There are a lot of gangsters who are more small time, bully killers than real, smart Sinaloa gangsters. You don’t know them.

I spent a summer with the real deal in New Jersey. One of them, Dr Dan, was an extra in a handful of Scorsese films. He owned the actual Boda Bing strip club and a restaurant called good fellas.

[Kung Wu]

If you are going to use public services to police a community, there’s really not much reason that you couldn’t rotate them through the fire and EMT teams. I am of the belief that firemen, EMTs, and cops are mostly not doing much and then they do a lot of really hard work.

When I need EMTs, I want a seasoned experts. :)

[Shockm]

The OG criminals are usually nice guys. I just advise you not to go into business with them.

There are a lot of gangsters who are more small time, bully killers than real, smart Sinaloa gangsters. You don’t know them.

[wufan]

I don't know if anyone's watched the movie Citizen X but it's based on a serial killer in Russia. It's disturbing but intriguing. One of the things I'll never forget is how the Russian investigator almost loses everything in his life because of his immersion into finding this sick individual. When the Soviet empire falls, his superior apologizes to him because he's learned that his American counterparts are rotated off cases so as not to burn themselves out.

I often wonder how overworked Police are, especially those that engage the public directly day after day. Rotating them off the streets more (or at all) might keep them from burning out or becoming too frustrated, but also might make them better officers all around with a more balanced learning environment.

Now, I realize that would command a huge increase in funding, and you'd have to find a lot more people interested in law enforcement (and that's certainly not the current state of affairs) but it seems like a test market trial would bear fruit.

Just one man's opinion.

If you are going to use public services to police a community, there’s really not much reason that you couldn’t rotate them through the fire and EMT teams. I am of the belief that firemen, EMTs, and cops are mostly not doing much and then they do a lot of really hard work.

[wufan]

Yes and how often does the criminal element do their criminal thing, make money, and not get caught or disrupted by upstanding people and the police? My guess is that the criminal element and organized crime (drugs, stolen cars, other crimes) don’t get caught. My guess is that a lot of money in our society is a product of “crime”. I remember being at parties where I was told by others to stay away from a certain older guys who were known criminals to them. Since I was and still go home at a reasonable hour, I see little of the criminal element that operates freely in the inner city ( Broadway, Plainview, Oaklawn, North, NE, etc), and makes it way to the suburbs and other rural areas.

The OG criminals are usually nice guys. I just advise you not to go into business with them.

[Shockm]

Agree bad cops exist and do bad things and abuse power. They need to be weeded out/punished when they screw up. But I've seen enough videos of people getting beat up and know that ifcI watched the 5 or 6 minutes prior to them getting beat and handled by cops, 99% of the time, it's warranted.

I think that the quality of cop is directly related to the quality of the citizenry in which they work. If your citizens are garbage, your cops will probably be garbage too.

Yes and how often does the criminal element do their criminal thing, make money, and not get caught or disrupted by upstanding people and the police? My guess is that the criminal element and organized crime (drugs, stolen cars, other crimes) don’t get caught. My guess is that a lot of money in our society is a product of “crime”. I remember being at parties where I was told by others to stay away from a certain older guys who were known criminals to them. Since I was and still go home at a reasonable hour, I see little of the criminal element that operates freely in the inner city ( Broadway, Plainview, Oaklawn, North, NE, etc), and makes it way to the suburbs and other rural areas.

[WuDrWu]

Agree bad cops exist and do bad things and abuse power. They need to be weeded out/punished when they screw up. But I've seen enough videos of people getting beat up and know that ifcI watched the 5 or 6 minutes prior to them getting beat and handled by cops, 99% of the time, it's warranted.

I think that the quality of cop is directly related to the quality of the citizenry in which they work. If your citizens are garbage, your cops will probably be garbage too.

I don't know if anyone's watched the movie Citizen X but it's based on a serial killer in Russia. It's disturbing but intriguing. One of the things I'll never forget is how the Russian investigator almost loses everything in his life because of his immersion into finding this sick individual. When the Soviet empire falls, his superior apologizes to him because he's learned that his American counterparts are rotated off cases so as not to burn themselves out.

I often wonder how overworked Police are, especially those that engage the public directly day after day. Rotating them off the streets more (or at all) might keep them from burning out or becoming too frustrated, but also might make them better officers all around with a more balanced learning environment.

Now, I realize that would command a huge increase in funding, and you'd have to find a lot more people interested in law enforcement (and that's certainly not the current state of affairs) but it seems like a test market trial would bear fruit.

Just one man's opinion.

[ShockerPrez]

Agree bad cops exist and do bad things and abuse power. They need to be weeded out/punished when they screw up. But I've seen enough videos of people getting beat up and know that ifcI watched the 5 or 6 minutes prior to them getting beat and handled by cops, 99% of the time, it's warranted.

I think that the quality of cop is directly related to the quality of the citizenry in which they work. If your citizens are garbage, your cops will probably be garbage too.

[wufan]

There's always more to the story. But I have never seen a perp get beaten where when the cop said to do something, the perp complied. It's always the perp running, or resisting, or trying to keep from getting cuffed, or whatever.

And I will always give them the benefit of the doubt for a number of reasons. Most of all because I would rather they be in society than the person they are dealing with, if I had to make a choice. Because every situation could mean their life (see cop in OK), if they need to beat someone's ass to keep themselves safe, so be it. They deal with the dregs so I don't have to.

It does happen. I’m not sure if you would say it happens “a lot” vs the number of interactions, but it happens too often.

Perps also resist arrest and are beaten into submission or killed, justifiably. My guess is that this happens more often than the first scenario.

I think what’s important is that both sides honestly review these situations and assign blame appropriately. After all, anytime there are those that break laws and those that are tasked with enforcement, you are going to have physical altercations.

Two things to ask yourself: Do you want to live in a world of crime? Do you want government to have a monopoly on force? I reject this dichotomy and seek out a third way.