Orlando

[pinstripers]

So the US House of Representatives has a moment of silence for the Orlando victims and a bunch of Democratic Reps get up and walk out during the moment of silence. **** them.

[Play Angry]

So the US House of Representatives has a moment of silence for the Orlando victims and a bunch of Democratic Reps get up and walk out during the moment of silence. **** them.

That was completely disgusting. Could not have picked a worse moment to grandstand for a gun bill.

[shock]

You can take any semi auto AR and buy and auto sear for 30 bucks on gunbroker, fill out the federal liscensing and do a 5 minute swap and have a full auto.

To the jack wagon that said I want people to be afraid of me: Its the Democrats that want you to be afraid. I am not a democrat. I dont like feeling afraid so I carry.

The worst slaughters have been in gun free zones. Gun free zones are bad.

[MoValley John]

The worst slaughters have been in gun free zones. Gun free zones are bad.

And gay bars.

That one will get me in trouble...

[MoValley John]

And the non sequitor of non sequitors. My wife has this cousin from the other side of the tracks. This cousin lives several states away and has little, if any communication with my wife. Out of nowhere, this text came today:

Hi. I wanted to introduce the newest addition to the family. We recently found out that Derek is a dad. An ex-girlfriend had told us last year she had an abortion but that wasn't true. The babies name is Andre Rey and he'll be 7 months old on the 18th. He is absolutely adorable!

This cousin got knocked up when she was 15, and I don't think this Derek kid is old enough to drink. I really don't know what to think of any of this!

[wufan]

10 rounds vs 20 vs 100. Is this really where he debate is at? "It sure will be inconvenient for me to shoot hapless victim 11-20 so I guess I will just write an angry letter." How about those assault rifles: "if I don't have a comfortable handle, then there's no way I can shoot people and NOT feel like an amateur."

It's either legal to defend yourself or it isn't. That's my philosophical belief. It's not perfect, but it's consistent. No offense to Mr. Kahn, but I don't want him deciding who is or isn't capable of defending him/herself.

[Play Angry]

10 rounds vs 20 vs 100. Is this really where he debate is at? "It sure will be inconvenient for me to shoot hapless victim 11-20 so I guess I will just write an angry letter." How about those assault rifles: "if I don't have a comfortable handle, then there's no way I can shoot people and NOT feel like an amateur."

It's either legal to defend yourself or it isn't. That's my philosophical belief. It's not perfect, but it's consistent. No offense to Mr. Kahn, but I don't want him deciding who is or isn't capable of defending him/herself.

I am sort of confused - is the first paragraph of your post advocating in favor of limited regulation of firearms, and the second part is advocating against regulating access to those firearms?

It switched gears a little and I may have missed the bridge between the thoughts.

[KC Shox]

"there is absolutely no difference other than semi-auto v. auto capabilities. It is an interesting view."

THAT IS ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD

Another tidbit from the program, they reported that our military firearms training/operation manual advises soldiers to shoot the M-16 in semi-auto mode for better accuracy.

[wufan]

I am sort of confused - is the first paragraph of your post advocating in favor of limited regulation of firearms, and the second part is advocating against regulating access to those firearms?

It switched gears a little and I may have missed the bridge between the thoughts.

The first paragraph was sarcasm. There's no way that banning large capacity magazines or scary looking guns is going to stop the psychos. I'm a philosophical hard-liner here in that you either believe the right to self defense and you allow ownership, or you don't believe in self defense and you ban all gun ownership. That doesn't mean I don't believe in compromise, but advocating for 10 rounds is advocating that attempted murder of ten people is somehow more acceptable than attempted murder of 20 people. OTOH I am against the ownership of fully automatic weapons and artillery.

[MoValley John]

Another tidbit from the program, they reported that our military firearms training/operation manual advises soldiers to shoot the M-16 in semi-auto mode for better accuracy.

Half truth. Your first shot is always the most accurate. Also, every weapon, even a weapon with little recoil, still jumps. Lastly, one well placed bullet is more accurate then 10 bullets sprayed. That said, in 1984, the military taught me to shoot three to five round bursts out of the M-16.

[SB Shock]

Don't take me as anti-gun, i just purchased my first pistol to conceal and carry.

But assault rifles that have been heavily modified, armed with legally bought high capacity magazines are weapons of mass destruction

Weapons of mass destruction?

As horrific as this event was and let put this event in perspective - there were ~390 people killed in Chicago in the last 30 days with hand-guns. Chicago has some of the toughest gun control laws in the nation, but what kind of safety do they have? Well the criminal are safe from the law abiding citizens, but there is not much safety in the city.

The anti-gun may only be after rifles now, but they are coming after your pistols and conceal and carry license next. If you don't believe me then look at California. In a recent case in California where a law suit was against a sheriff who refused to approve carry and conceal licenses - the 9th circuit court just ruled that there is no right protected by the 2nd amendment to be able to carry a conceal handgun outside of one home. This will get appealed and probably go to the supreme court but with Scalia passing I doubt the U.S. Supreme Court will provide any push back (unless Keagan was somehow influenced by Scalia at one of the gun range outings). Therefore there will then be case law that will allow infringement of our right to protect ourselves.


This tragedy didn't happen because there were are rifles for sale, this tragedy happened because this guy decided he wanted to kill people. He chose a rifle and glock. If he didn't have them, he would have chosen something different - car bomb, knife, airplane, car, or buy an automatic weapon from the black market that came from Obama/Holder fast & furious scandal (that nobody has been held accountable for).

The reality is there were checks and balances that were there that should have stopped him - but as we are now finding out there were concerns about him but the Obama administration is playing the PC game and putting significant restrictions on investigating muslims. Who know whether with the FBI with a free hand could have developed enough of case that would have stopped him.

He allegedly was conducting domestic abuse - which under Federal and Florida law disqualify him from weapons permit (but his ex-wife didn't file charges, but is so willing now to tell us about his abuses).

Know we find out his 2nd wife knew of his plans, but didn't do anything with the info. Any one of these should have been enough to avert this.

Then we have the iman who was in Orlando last week preaching "gays must die" and we have the LEFT doing their best ostrich imitation.

1. You either have the right to protect yourself (and your family) or you don't. If anything, Orlando should show you as the Police waited 3 hours before in contravention of all active shooter tactics, they are not necessarily there to protect you, but to pick up the pieces.

2. You either have a 2nd amendment or you don't.

[Aargh]

Did anyone watch HBO's Real Sports a couple of weeks ago? They focused on the growing popularity among gun enthusiasts about the AR-15. It is being marketed as a "Sporting Rifle", not as an assault rifle. They also interviewed the original designer of the M-16/AR-15 and asked what the difference was between the two - he stated absolutely nothing.

To get away from the negative stigma the words assault rifle carries, the makers of the AR-15, dealers, advertisers, etc are using the term 'Sporting Rifle'. However, no matter what name these folks apply or call it, there is absolutely no difference other than semi-auto v. auto capabilities. It is an interesting view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4ksHGaIoG4

I'm not familiar with an AR, but I'm very familiar with an M-16. For self defense, that weapon is a piece of crap. It's best asset is it's ability to take out a lot of people at a reasonable distance by putting a lot of lead into the air.

I'm familiar with an M-14, which was the military predecessor to the M-16. The M-14 was incredibly accurate. I've spent time on a range with an M-1, which was the WWII rifle. That weapon is substantially more accurate than an M-16. As a single-shot weapon against a target, the M-16 did not shoot straight. It was never designed to shoot straight. It was designed as a point from the hip and put out a lot of lead weapon for jungle fighting in Nam. 50 yards or less, limited accuracy, but put out so much lead that you just sprayed lead until you hit something. We were trained to use it that way.

Those qualities make it an ideal weapon for urban terrorism. Start from a wall with a big clip. Do a 180 degree sweep and there's no one left standing near you to take you down. Change clips as you advance through the bodies and repeat the 180 sweep. That is what the weapon was designed for.

For a weapon to defend myself in an urban environment, I'd much sooner have a sidearm. If defending yourself is your reason to support unlimited sales of AR's, then you must be planning on defending yourself against a biker gang or a military action.

If I'm in some public place and gunfire breaks out, I'd much sooner pull out a sidearm than an AR. It's less likely to attract the attention of the shooter, and I'd be unlikely to have the AR's sights set for 20 or 30 feet.

[pinstripers]

Another tidbit from the program, they reported that our military firearms training/operation manual advises soldiers to shoot the M-16 in semi-auto mode for better accuracy.

That would be true when firing at a distance, certainly.

[wufan]

I'm not familiar with an AR, but I'm very familiar with an M-16. For self defense, that weapon is a piece of crap. It's best asset is it's ability to take out a lot of people at a reasonable distance by putting a lot of lead into the air.

I'm familiar with an M-14, which was the military predecessor to the M-16. The M-14 was incredibly accurate. I've spent time on a range with an M-1, which was the WWII rifle. That weapon is substantially more accurate than an M-16. As a single-shot weapon against a target, the M-16 did not shoot straight. It was never designed to shoot straight. It was designed as a point from the hip and put out a lot of lead weapon for jungle fighting in Nam. 50 yards or less, limited accuracy, but put out so much lead that you just sprayed lead until you hit something. We were trained to use it that way.

Those qualities make it an ideal weapon for urban terrorism. Start from a wall with a big clip. Do a 180 degree sweep and there's no one left standing near you to take you down. Change clips as you advance through the bodies and repeat the 180 sweep. That is what the weapon was designed for.

For a weapon to defend myself in an urban environment, I'd much sooner have a sidearm. If defending yourself is your reason to support unlimited sales of AR's, then you must be planning on defending yourself against a biker gang or a military action.

If I'm in some public place and gunfire breaks out, I'd much sooner pull out a sidearm than an AR. It's less likely to attract the attention of the shooter, and I'd be unlikely to have the AR's sights set for 20 or 30 feet.

The AR-15 civilian weapon is semi-automatic. The M-16 military weapon is fully automatic. Important distinction.

[Aargh]

The AR-15 civilian weapon is semi-automatic. The M-16 military weapon is fully automatic. Important distinction.

Of course. I've fired both the semi and the fully models. Even someone with incredibly slow fingers or reflexes can get off about 5 or 6 rounds a second in semi mode. That means it takes 5 or 6 seconds to empty a 30-round clip.

Someone with a well-holstered sidearm isn't going to be able to unlatch the strap holding the sidearm in the holster, remove the weapon from the holster, remove the trigger safety, disengage the firing safety, take aim on the shooter and get a round off in that amount of time. There is virtually no defense against an assault rifle in an urban terrorism situation.