Another School Shooting

[SB Shock]

I think an armed police officer in every school should be standard, but that's a decision for communities and schools to implement. I don't think a federal solution is attainable. I just think isolated people living in a society trying to be tracked and insulated from doing harm to others is not possible without a police state and violations of freedom that aren't going to happen. When the first response from the same actors is to make political hay and virtue-signal off the deaths of children, you know that is the wrong person to look to for a solution.

The school did have a school resource officer. The story is that this person did engage and forced the POS to drop his backpack which had his ammo. But due to body armor was not incapacitated and was able to get into the school.

There may have even been 2 more officers there also - but that would beg the question if true why did they not pursue and engage if true.

[1972Shocker]

My wife works at East High. They have a single point of entry unless you have a key to another door. There is not a second set of doors. Once your in, your in. They do have security cameras but no buzz in and no metal detectors. She did think that some, if not all the elementary schools have a buzz in. Maybe if they have Covid funds left over they could use some of that to harden the school security a bit.

[1972Shocker]

According to The New York Post, Salvador Ramos, the 18-year-old had just about every red flag in the book.

The gunman who slaughtered 19 kids and two teachers at a Texas elementary school reportedly exhibited increasingly bizarre behavior leading up to the rampage — including cutting up his face with knives just “for fun,” friends said…

…Valdez also described how Ramos used to drive around with another pal and shoot people at random with a BB gun — and also egged people’s cars…

…Flores and several other people familiar with the family said Ramos’ mother used drugs, which contributed to the trouble at home, according to the Washington Post, which said it could not reach her for comment.

There are even more details within the Post’s article, but to summarize, Ramos was mentally ill to the point where he was cutting himself, shooting people with BB guns, and starting fights with boxing gloves in the park. He also lived in a home without a father with a drug addict mother, and the police were aware of him because of past domestic incidents.

And in the midst of all that, the authorities never thought “We need to get this kid to a facility”? Instead, he was shipped off to live with his grandmother, which is not at all a viable attempt to deal with what was clearly a volatile situation.

Friends and relatives also said Ramos had been bullied throughout middle school for a speech impediment – a stutter and lisp, according to the Washington Post.

[1972Shocker]

I really don't have any problem with more background checks although, Ramos, like most mass shooters passed a background check because they didn’t have a prior criminal record. Past that, gun confiscation is not only unconstitutional, but it wouldn’t get guns out of the hands of those that want to harm others anyway.

However, Ramos apparently bought his gun the day he turned 18. But a background check apparently did not flag any of his issues noted in the New York Post article. There are aspects of background checks already occurring that could be expanded without violating the rights of gun owners. If a person has made threats in the past, as the Buffalo shooter did, if they have been involved in domestic violence, or if you have an 18-year-old high school student that has shown violent behavior and is known to the authorities, that should be a available in a background check data base. So maybe more background checks is not the answer but better and more complete background data base that flags these issues.

Then you have the mental health issue, which is the consistent factor in essentially all these shootings. It’s hard to think of a mass shooter who didn’t exhibit clear signs of mental illness, not just to his family, but to the authorities as well, prior to carrying out an attack. I know this may not be popular with libertarians, but I do think the authorities need the power to forcibly commit people who objectively exhibit mental illness. That would go for possible mass shooters, but also cover other problems, such as the homeless who are attacking people on the streets in places like California. Of course, something like this is ripe for abuse by authorities so guard rails need to be in place.

Perhaps instead of putting all this time and effort into sexualizing kids beginning in kindergarten we could focus on an anti-bullying message and programs.

[SubGod22]

The mental illness aspect is the biggest part of this. How we deal with that is the real question and a potentially scary one. IF you want the government to be able to forcibly commit someone, you need to have very specific guidelines for that. Most people just casually throw out the mentally ill shouldn't be able to have guns. But many people who would be classified as mentally ill, myself included, aren't a harm to anyone or themselves. We just have to be very careful when we're talking about taking away constitutional rights from people and we need a very clear threshold and process within it.

But most of this goes back to mental illness and both the difficulty for many to access help and the still negative stigma that surrounds it and those that seek help. I don't know how we make the availability better. My insurance covers the bulk of my visits and I believe most plans are probably similar these days as mental health has been put a little more out there in the open and the importance discussed. I think a lot of businesses agree and support that coverage. That doesn't help everyone though. And it's especially difficult for lower income families. I don't have those answers.

[pinstripers]

Most mass shooters are male and most do not have a father figure in their lives. ..........I dunno how this helps

[WuDrWu]

Idle hands.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

The key, or at least one of the keys, is to identify the mental illness and actually give the proper authorities (police, social workers, etc.) the tools to actually act and do something. They have to be able to remove someone out of necessity and get them treatment. Particularly if that person is a juvenile.

Comparing gun laws in the US to those of other countries who "don't have these problems" is too simplistic and is not apples to oranges. For one thing, like it or not, there is a constitution that our country is bound by with a 2nd amendment that allows access and rights to fire arms. I absolutely agree that there are ways to work within the frame work of the constitution to strengthen gun laws (tougher and more thorough background checks) but as has been said most people who commit gun violence are not getting the guns legally and if someone is mentally deranged and wants to commit these atrocities they will likely find an alternative method if they can't get a gun. Granted that might be a less catastrophic assault.

Kids (particularly males) need proper outlets and good role models to mold them in their formative years. This is severely lacking in the instant gratification and technological age we are living in. Too many times kids are lost because of a lack of a father figure and / or a motherly figure and the reliance on games and technology to babysit. It is maddening to me and I don't have answers...

[SHOCKvalue]

I thought, think, whatever, most Wichita area schools already have a single point of entry. I'm unsure if you have to call or buzz to be admitted, maybe someone can clarify.

Gotta be buzzed into my wife's school, but she's not with 259. Logical to assume it is the same or even more restrictive with 259.

[Shockm]

The key, or at least one of the keys, is to identify the mental illness and actually give the proper authorities (police, social workers, etc.) the tools to actually act and do something. They have to be able to remove someone out of necessity and get them treatment. Particularly if that person is a juvenile.
.

This is a huge issue because Police are called when a person is very violent but have many restrictions on admitting an adult or juvenile to get mental treatment and then second guessed when situations go awhry.

[pinstripers]

4 times as many per capita died in mass shootings in FRANCE as in the US. 21 times in Norway. In addition to those fairly nice nations, Finland, Germany, Israel, Italy, Spain, and Switzerland have higher mass shooting death rates.

[pinstripers]

https://www.theblaze.com/fearless/oped/whitlock-motivation-not-mechanism

Jason Whitlock's take

[shock]

I typed this up yesterday and then decided to sleep on it.

Guns are not the problem, therefore legislating guns further is not the answer. Law abiding citizens are not the problem, either.

America is BY FAR the heaviest medicated country in the world. There used to be a graphic of major school shooters and the psychotropics they ALL were on. Mental illness is a major issue in the United States, IMO worse than any virus or plague has ever been, pandemic or epidemic.

Bullying is a major issue, not because it happens (it always has), but because kids are not allowed to fight back. Bullies also almost always have **** homes to go back to, where their drunk or doped out parents neglect them, beat them, and, as in the case in my area, pimp them out to family members and others.

Lastly, Americans protect the assets they hold dearest (money, money generating minerals, and politicians) with heavy weapons. Trucks patrol the TransAlaskan Pipeline 24/7 with M16s in the hands of very well trained, mostly ex-military agents. Big banks have armored guards, and politicians have the best of the best trained individuals in the world protecting them, but someone mentions arming qualified teachers and the shrieking hits a fever pitch that causes all the garage doors in suburbia to fly open.

As our country continues to fall apart it’s only going to get worse.

[shoxplode]

100%. Rotate TWO armed U.S. soldiers every couple weeks from their enlisted company at said single point of entry. Add cameras (their cheap these days) around entire perimeter. Some f##ktard tries to breach the fence...the full weight of a military man or women has open season to take them out without question.

Dumbasses will learn very quickly not to screw with a school and the American people will be happy when the first dumbass attempts this atrocity and is taken out by the soldier. Amen.

There are approximately 131,000 public schools in this country and you want TWO soldiers at every one…When is the military gonna find the time to fight China and Russia?

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

I typed this up yesterday and then decided to sleep on it.

Guns are not the problem, therefore legislating guns further is not the answer. Law abiding citizens are not the problem, either.

America is BY FAR the heaviest medicated country in the world. There used to be a graphic of major school shooters and the psychotropics they ALL were on. Mental illness is a major issue in the United States, IMO worse than any virus or plague has ever been, pandemic or epidemic.

Bullying is a major issue, not because it happens (it always has), but because kids are not allowed to fight back. Bullies also almost always have **** homes to go back to, where their drunk or doped out parents neglect them, beat them, and, as in the case in my area, pimp them out to family members and others.

Lastly, Americans protect the assets they hold dearest (money, money generating minerals, and politicians) with heavy weapons. Trucks patrol the TransAlaskan Pipeline 24/7 with M16s in the hands of very well trained, mostly ex-military agents. Big banks have armored guards, and politicians have the best of the best trained individuals in the world protecting them, but someone mentions arming qualified teachers and the shrieking hits a fever pitch that causes all the garage doors in suburbia to fly open.

As our country continues to fall apart it’s only going to get worse.

So true. Another thing on the mental illness aspect. Kids are becoming affected younger and younger by outside influences that cause emotional and mental issues thanks to social media. It is out of control and we are subjecting young kids who are not fully developed to the cesspool that is social media. They see this fantasy land that most people put out on social media and the gauge their own lives on that and that leads to extreme feelings of loneliness, depression, anxiety, and a host of other issues which in turn often lead to addiction and mental issues at a very early age. We have truly failed our youth in a major way I believe. And all our politicians can do is point fingers at each other. Truly a shame.