WBB coach announcement today at 1:30

[SubGod22]

Val could handle the ball just fine in a running system. She's not a point but can do more than enough.

Both Rice and Hoyt have potential but need to improve a lot in thier decision making. And I'm not convinced that Whitney has enough desire to really push herself to become the player she could be.

[ballerfan]

wsubballfan I agree with your post. I would have preferred to have Whitney at the point and run Jacie at the 2 or better yet not worry about who is in the 1 and who is in the 2 just push the ball and play BALL! Involve everyone in the offense and let them contribute.... I have not seen Val handle the ball not sure of her ball handling capabilites. I still feel that DeGarmo was not utilized to her potential and that Daria IS the best one on one player on this team, just doesn't seem to see the court and use her team mates to well...

[SubGod22]

Daria is by far the best athlete on the team and I wish she'd do more. She's very capable but I think gets down on herself and/or doubts her abilities. I haven't seen Val play since HS but she had the ball in her hands a lot. And that was on a team with a couple other D1 players. She wasn't the primary ball handler but will do just fine in an up and down game.

[ballerfan]

subgod I have to disagree with you about Whitney not wanting to push herself and be the best she can be. She played injured all season with injuries that would sideline most players. She has an uncanny knowledge of the game....Hoyt plays with tremendous heart but doesn't seem to see the court like Rice.

[wsubballfan]

Subgod, we can agree to disagree on Rice because a) I doubt you've ever even talked to her about whether she pushes herself and while I haven't talked to her directly I have listened as she's talked to my daughter on the price you pay to play at this level and I have met some of her family and was impressed with what they told me her schedule was last summer. Besides I'm assuming you are male and you have no clue what menopause is like even if you can relate to the stress fractures.
b) you were admittedly a Kinder fan and if your impression of someone pushing themselves was Kinder then I understand where you are coming from because I've rarely witnessed such a twisted display. I tried to pay her a compliment once after a game and she almost spat in my face. After that I started really watching her demeanor as I was curious if it was something I'd done. She had to be one of the most negative players on and off the floor. I find it hard to imagine the team electing her as their captain and leader. In fact, I never once saw her do anything encouraging toward her teammates. She obviously only found solace in playing with Taylor and would actually dribble in the opposite direction to avoid passing to some of her teammates. So, if pushing yourself means becoming a "Kinder", I hope none of the players do that.
In general, I guess what I'm saying is your observations on the X's and O's I can handle. But when you jump to observations on player character, your view seems tainted.

[SubGod22]

I've witnessed plenty and been around the team on a few occassions as well as talked to some players/family over the past 3 years or so. I've never noticed Kinder play the way you saw it. One thing a lot of people have thought about her is she wasn't selfish enough at times. Her biggest problem is she gets down on herself and everyone knows that. If you caught her right after a game she didn't like the way she played I have no doubt that she'd come off that way. But very few are harder workers than she is. And amongst my discussions with others, Whitney's desire had been question at times and her injuries were overblown. No one ever said she never suffered from injuries or pain but that she at times would milk it in order to get out of some things. And on the few occasions I'd been around and/or talked to Rice, I didn't come away with a great feeling about her. I haven't been around her enough to completely judge her and may have just saw the few times she was like that, but I could say the same for you and your characterization of Kyrie.

[wsubballfan]

ballerfan, please don't misunderstand my intent on Jen, Daria and Val. I want to make sure it is clear I wasn't saying any of the three individually would not be on the floor in an up and down game. I just question all three together for an extended length of time in an up and down game. I'm absolutely on board with all three of them being in the game in an up and down scenario.

And, I totally agree on Jen not being used to her potential but neither was Sam, or Daria, or Whitney, or oh wait, neither was anyone who wasn't a senior or Hoyt.

By the way, aren't we ignoring the probability that the three recruits who signed with Murray State may follow Adams here. I think there's a 5'10" from up north maybe even Minnesota like Daria. And, I believe a PG who is actually a close family friend which could really be interesting if she and Kayla Rice both come but Wichita may be too far from Tennessee. Think the third was more of a local girl too but can't remember.

And, everyone is assuming all of our players return. I thought most of you thought they weren't D1 caliber so if Adams releases all of them, we may not be able to field a team either.

[SubGod22]

I would hope that none of MSUs recruits would follow Adams to Wichita. That's one thing that I know I'm completely agaisnt anyone doing and one reason I could care less if Turgeon ever has any real success the rest of his career. Hopefully we don't fall into that on the womens side of the game.

[RoyalShock]

Why is it acceptible in the women's game for a coach to go to a different school and "bring recruits along" that were recruited on the other school's dime? This seems to be a regularity. I think a player or two went from UMKC to SIU with Eickenburg and Adams.

This is a huge no-no on the men's side and a big reason why some people lost a lot of respect for Turgeon.

[wsubballfan]

If you got your impressions of Rice from Kyrie, that probably explains it.

As for her injuries, reference the SIU discussion and I'm guessing you'll see a correlation between bullying and Whitney's situation. Without calling a spade a spade, in my one discussion with her family, there were definitely undertones of things they would not say about how the injuries were handled. But, they did point blank tell me that her teammates were led to believe she didn't have medical problems her sophomore year and that they were never told otherwise. Pretty much explains why a Kyrie or any other senior only had part of the story unless of course they had the decency to ask directly.

Hopefully, water under the bridge now.

And, thanks for making my point on Kyrie. If you can't catch a team captain after a game and expect them to set the ultimate example of how to treat a fan, especially a younger one, with courtesy, then you've got the wrong team captain.


And, thanks for making my point on your ability to judge character. You have admitted you are a ref so I doubt you are also a doctor. And, even if you are, you haven't seen Rice's medical files to be able to state her injuries were overblown.

[wsubballfan]

As for players following coaches in the women's game, do you think it has anything to do with women being more "relational" creatures than men? Would bet that some female players rely much more on the "touchy-feely" aspect.
Even you guys believe Stiles went to SMS because of her relationship with what a HS coach that ended up as an asst there?

[SubGod22]

My impressions of Rice come from my experience with and around her and talking to a number of other people in and near the program.

A team captains main focus is within the team and the leadership there. Some are vocal and others aren't. Some handle stuff quitely or moreso in practice others do it during games. Some are better off the court than others. Yes, she could handle some of those things better I'm sure. But to expect someone who probably just lost to be upbeat and chipper moments after the game is a bit extreme by me. Someone that can easily do that doesn't mind losing and can accept it much more easily than others.

Being a doctor has nothing to do with it. Neither of us are or have seen the files. Both of us are basing it off of what we've seen and/or heard.

I don't throw stuff around just for the heck of it. That wouldn't be fair to anyone or just. And I wouldn't stake my fragile little online reputation on making stuff up or basing things off of one persons views. Like I've said before, these opinions come from many different people in and around the program. And based upon my views of what I've seen over the past 3 to 4 years. You seem to completely have your mind made up over all of this so what I say makes no difference, but it is what it is.

Whitney has a lot of potential. I just don't expect to ever see her reach what she's capable of. Maybe having a new coach will help. We all know Jane did a poor job developing talent. But I'm not sure Jane was the biggest problem here...

[RoyalShock]

As for players following coaches in the women's game, do you think it has anything to do with women being more "relational" creatures than men? Would bet that some female players rely much more on the "touchy-feely" aspect.
Even you guys believe Stiles went to SMS because of her relationship with what a HS coach that ended up as an asst there?

You are probably right about the relational aspect. But you hear all the time how a men's recruit will say "I really connected with the coaching staff and felt comfortable with the players." That's the male equivalent.

I see no justifiable reason why the ethics of recruiting should be any different between the two.

[wsu789]

After reading this thread (and admittedly not many others about the women's program during the season), I have come to the conclusion that not only is there a big difference on the court between the men's and women's games, but there is a big difference in posting about it as well.

Wow.

[shockerfanmas]

I have to agree with subgod here, Coach Albright was only part of the reason why this womens team has struggled through the past few years. I've attend a few womens practices over the years, and on more than one occasion I've heard Jane pleading with her players to get some intensity and show some hustle. More than once have i heard her chewing Whitney out. There's no doubt Whitney is also part of the problem. I've also heard from several people that she is lazy and doesn't give 100%, even when she has been fully healthy. However, this years team had several problems, not just Jane and Whitney.

On the recruiting side, I won't get into this much. I've always been of the mindset that the majority of the recruits choose a school because of the coach, and if that's the case, I see absolutely no problem with recruits following a coach to a new school. It has happened in football, it has happened in baseball, and it has happened in basketball. I can understand some of you may think it's an ethics thing, but i say let the kids decide who they want to play for. If coach Adams recruits want to follow her to WSU, then I think that is perfectly acceptable. And I may catch heat for that, but that's fine. However, if coach Adams, or any other coach, tries to recruit these players to the new school, that I may have a problem with. There's a big difference between a recruit wanting to follow a coach under his or her own accord, and a coach trying to rerecruit the same kids just because they went to a new school. It's a fine line.

I think we will see improvement under Coach Adams, I don't think she is going to put up with the laziness and off and on the court attitudes that Jane put up with this year.