Wichita State WBB - Miscellaneous

[RoyalShock]

This is purely speculation, but I wonder if this kind of a move has any overlap with attempts to switch conferences. We already compensate our men's basketball coach at a high level and I would believe that if the salaries of your other coaches were at or above the average salaries of the conference you wanted to enter it would greatly enhance your chances of getting in because it would signal to that conference (or those conferences) that you are willing to make the financial commitment to be competitive in their league.

We can hope!

[1972Shocker]

This is purely speculation, but I wonder if this kind of a move has any overlap with attempts to switch conferences. We already compensate our men's basketball coach at a high level and I would believe that if the salaries of your other coaches were at or above the average salaries of the conference you wanted to enter it would greatly enhance your chances of getting in because it would signal to that conference (or those conferences) that you are willing to make the financial commitment to be competitive in their league.

Wouldn't that be wonderful.

One thing it will, and probably should do, is to set performance expectations of Shocker fans at a very high level and I'm sure Jody welcomes the challenge.

[WuDrWu]

This is purely speculation, but I wonder if this kind of a move has any overlap with attempts to switch conferences. We already compensate our men's basketball coach at a high level and I would believe that if the salaries of your other coaches were at or above the average salaries of the conference you wanted to enter it would greatly enhance your chances of getting in because it would signal to that conference (or those conferences) that you are willing to make the financial commitment to be competitive in their league.

This must be what it's like to be really, really intelligent.

[DwShock]

Holy cow.

Boy, to the uneducated layman (me), that sure seems like a really, really good deal. Jody is going to make more than some of the men's coaches in the Valley. Trying to add in my head (so this is probably way off) it seems like about a $360,000 average over the next 5 years, if she stays the 5 to get the annuity. That's big time money....for Valley MEN'S programs.

I like Jody a lot, I believe she's great with promoting student athletes and her successes on the floor the last 2 years are historic. I trust ADES that this is a good deal for BOTH HCJA and WSU-ICAA.

Now, what does Lambo deserve?

I'd like to see the numbers of all the men's and women's salary packages on here to see just how wsu compares to other valley schools. Add all the sports if needed.

[The Mad Hatter]

I don't have the numbers for Valley schools, but I do have info on the national median salaries for coaches from 2012 divided by football affiliation (FBS, FCS, No Football):

	FBS	FCS	No Football
Men's Basketball	$1,228,000	$214,000	$317,000
Women's Basketball	$376,000	$149,000	$162,000

https://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4306-revenues-and-expenses-2004-2012-ncaa-division-i-intercollegiate-athletics-programs-report.aspx

If people are interested in the median 2012 salaries for other sports, I can look those up as well.

[1972Shocker]

Interesting, although perhaps not too surprising, that the No Football category has noticeable higher median's than the FCS category. Do they give any figures for the average (mean) salaries?

[The Mad Hatter]

Interesting, although perhaps not too surprising, that the No Football category has noticeable higher median's than the FCS category. Do they give any figures for the average (mean) salaries?

No the report doesn't provide mean salary figures.

[ripemupshocks]

Question: How does this deal for Jody compare to Lambo's contract? At this point Jody's resume is not nearly as long or strong as Lambo's. Perhaps Lambo is also in-line for some contract enhancements.

A quick view of Lambo's contract indicates he signed in July 2009 at an annual salary of $128,000 with no less than a 4% increase each year. He also receives a $30,000 bonus on Dec 31 of each year. If he remains in his job thru Dec 31, 2018 he will receive an additional lump sum bonus of $320,000. There are also some pitifully small bonuses in the $500 to $2,000 range for maintaining GPA's, winning the conference and coach of the year type things. There is also all of the requisite insurance (medical, dental, disability), sick leave, retirement benefits, country club membership and a couple of cars. Jan 1, 2013 Coach Lamb's contract was amended to a seven year rolling. Like I said, I just took a quick look, so I may have missed some amendments and/or addendums.

[Shocker-maniac]

A quick view of Lambo's contract indicates he signed in July 2009 at an annual salary of $128,000 with no less than a 4% increase each year. He also receives a $30,000 bonus on Dec 31 of each year. If he remains in his job thru Dec 31, 2018 he will receive an additional lump sum bonus of $320,000. There are also some pitifully small bonuses in the $500 to $2,000 range for maintaining GPA's, winning the conference and coach of the year type things. There is also all of the requisite insurance (medical, dental, disability), sick leave, retirement benefits, country club membership and a couple of cars. Jan 1, 2013 Coach Lamb's contract was amended to a seven year rolling. Like I said, I just took a quick look, so I may have missed some amendments and/or addendums.

I am definitely in the "give Lambo a BIG raise" camp. It would be interesting to see how it compares to the median vb salaries for FBS, FCS, and No Football schools.

[The Mad Hatter]

A quick view of Lambo's contract indicates he signed in July 2009 at an annual salary of $128,000 with no less than a 4% increase each year. He also receives a $30,000 bonus on Dec 31 of each year. If he remains in his job thru Dec 31, 2018 he will receive an additional lump sum bonus of $320,000. There are also some pitifully small bonuses in the $500 to $2,000 range for maintaining GPA's, winning the conference and coach of the year type things. There is also all of the requisite insurance (medical, dental, disability), sick leave, retirement benefits, country club membership and a couple of cars. Jan 1, 2013 Coach Lamb's contract was amended to a seven year rolling. Like I said, I just took a quick look, so I may have missed some amendments and/or addendums.

So with raises since 2009 and the annual $30,000 bonus, Lamb should be at around $185,000 this coming season (someone correct me if my math is off - which is highly likely).

I'm not saying that Lamb shouldn't be paid very well (he absolutely should), but I would point out that from everything I have seen, the national average salary for a women's volleyball coach is about half of the average salary for a women's basketball coach.

At WSU, Lamb makes around 83% of the salary of Adams (although that may shift some depending on bonuses and raise structures). Lamb's lump sum of $320,000 for retention is 80% of Adams' $400,000 for retention. In addition, Lamb has a 7 year rolling contract compared to a 5 year rolling contract for Adams which provides a little extra security for Lamb.

I guess my point is that given Lamb's success he absolutely deserves to be compensated at a higher level than average for a volleyball coach, even without a new contract, the ratios between his contract and Jody's new one are very favorable compared to the market rates.

I'll also tack on the national median volleyball salaries like I did for basketball in my above post:

	FBS	FCS	No Football
Volleyball	$137,000	$78,000	$83,000

[Shocker-maniac]

Interesting, although perhaps not too surprising, that the No Football category has noticeable higher median's than the FCS category. Do they give any figures for the average (mean) salaries?

I need to caveat the following statements by saying that I have not researched this issue, and maybe my judgment is clouded by what I see with the Valley schools . . .

I do not understand why a school would have a FCS football program. In most cases it has to be a huge drain on the athletic budget with very marginal return. FCS football brings very little national attention to a school as it is basically ignored by the national media. I suppose the argument is that it enhances the student experience with Saturday football games during the fall, but are most FCS games that well attended?

I think that the most damaging aspect has to be the drain on the budget so that limited resources are available for basketball. As we have seen, a well funded, successful basketball program that competes at the national level can bring all sorts of national publicity and interest in a school. I think that WSU and Gonzaga have demonstrated that the successful model is that if you cannot have a FBS football program then it is far more advantageous to put the resources in to the basketball program.

[WuDrWu]

Thanks for the great information, @The Mad Hatter:. I like that Chris is right there compared with FBS coaches if not a little better. My only question (or topic of discussion perhaps) would be that Lambo and his teams have had far better success, but more importantly (dollar wise) draw much better than women's basketball and almost have to bring in more cash, perhaps a LOT more. Seems like that alone would be worth a salary a little closer to Jody's.

Just my opinion...and I'll happily admit while I don't want to see Jody go AT ALL, I doubt I would lose a lot of sleep over it, and they'll have to pry the Lambs from my cold dead fingers to get them out of Wichita.

[The Mad Hatter]

Thanks for the great information, @The Mad Hatter. I like that Chris is right there compared with FBS coaches if not a little better. My only question (or topic of discussion perhaps) would be that Lambo and his teams have had far better success, but more importantly (dollar wise) draw much better than women's basketball and almost have to bring in more cash, perhaps a LOT more. Seems like that alone would be worth a salary a little closer to Jody's.

Just my opinion...and I'll happily admit while I don't want to see Jody go AT ALL, I doubt I would lose a lot of sleep over it, and they'll have to pry the Lambs from my cold dead fingers to get them out of Wichita.

I think for the reasons you mention there is a strong case to be made to pay Lamb more based on the success and fan support that he has garnered, even though he is well compensated now. I certainly agree with the sentiment that we need to do whatever is necessary to keep Lamb around.

The counter-argument is that the market dictates the value. Even if Lamb's program brings more revenue than the average volleyball program, if the average volleyball salary is half of the average basketball salary, the number it takes in a free market to retain a volleyball coach will be lower than for a basketball coach. It is less about comparing coaches within a single institution and comparing what the open market would pay for that person's services and paying enough to keep other schools from poaching your coaches. From a fiscal responsibility standpoint, at what point would a raise to Lamb (who already makes proportionately more than his peers) make no difference in discouraging other schools from out-bidding you for his services and does it makes sense to ignore those market dynamics just because it emotionally feels like he should make more than the women's basketball coach.

[1972Shocker]

The one overriding positive of what we have seen is that WSU is extremely competitive in compensating its coaches.

I wonder how Steve Rainbolt's package compares to the national median fpr T&F Head Coaches.

I would say that right now across the board and collectively that the Shocks have about as good a group of coaches as they have ever had. That doesn't happen by accident.

[oldtimewomen's hoopcoach]

The one overriding positive of what we have seen is that WSU is extremely competitive in compensating its coaches.

I wonder how Steve Rainbolt's package compares to the national median fpr T&F Head Coaches.

I would say that right now across the board and collectively that the Shocks have about as good a group of coaches as they have ever had. That doesn't happen by accident.

Way off topic, but I looked at goshockers.com in the women's hoop section and they have yet to post the 2014-2015 roster. I thought by now they would have. I'm still not sure who is on the team with players leaving, eligibility issues with Russia, maybe a player not in camp yet because of grades. Not a big deal, just trying to figure out the team. Perhaps they are waiting until everything is in concrete with regards to who is on the team.