Elephant in the Room

[Veritas]

Lamb would be doing ok if his wife was still the defacto head coach

I don’t see any losing records with Gene. Comparing Lamb to Gene is comparing Pluto to the Sun.
Terrible comparisons. Try a different misdirection tactic or a real comparison such as comparing the past 4 years of Lamb “O” with Butler’s Shocker coaching career. Similar results.

[ShockTalk]

Lamb would be doing ok if his wife was still the deaf to head coach

I don’t see any losing records with Gene. Comparing Lamb to Gene is comparing Pluto to the Sun.
Terrible comparisons. Try a different misdirection tactic such as comparing the past 4 years of Lamb “O” with Butler’s Shocker coaching career. Similar results.

Butler's NEVER been a successful head coach, so that's not good either. You're the one that brought up Gene as in still winning MoValley championships. He wasn't...at least not nearly often enough IN THE VALLEY for one of the top salaries in college baseball. That's the rub. Where does Lamb's salary come in among volleyball coaches? Does his "comparables" have down years?

[jimshocker]

Is Lambo being paid at the same level among volleyball coaches than Gene was being paid among all baseball coaches? Gene was being paid at a level that pretty much required WSU to win the regular season and/or the league tournament every year. He had not done both in the same year for his last 9 years and not done either for 2 of the last 3 years. After he had won the Valley regular season for 14 seasons in a row, he had only done 5 of his last 13 years. After qualifying for the NCAA tournament 22 of 23 years, he had only done it 1 of 4 years. Gene's team's performance needed to be commensurate with his salary. Am asking most of this, because I do not know at what level of pay Lamb is on a national level. I knew what top college baseball coaches made (and what was expected of that by their schools'), but so in volleyball.

How would Lamb be doing if we were still in the Valley? How well would Gene have done had he been coaching those last 4 or so years in the AAC?

How does Lamb and Stevenson compare in "off the field" problems?

I think all of this needs to be laid out before we start making comparisons and that it be done by those making such comparisons.

Quick look. I'lll do some more looking. But, just to get a quick comparison.

Lambo's salary is 620% higher than the median salary on payroll at WSU.

He was paid $373,184 in 2019

More than the Head coach at Texas.
More than the Head coach at Minnesota.
More than the Head coach at Florida.

[ShockTalk]

Quick look. I'lll do some more looking. But, just to get a quick comparison.

Lambo's salary is 620% higher than the median salary on payroll at WSU.

He was paid $373,184 in 2019

More than the Head coach at Texas.
More than the Head coach at Minnesota.
More than the Head coach at Florida.

So, am I to suppose that you have not come across any in the major volleyball conferences that are higher? Just for comparison sake you understand. After all, you do have a bone to pick here and we all want to be fair.

[Veritas]

Butler's NEVER been a successful head coach, so that's not good either. You're the one that brought up Gene as in still winning MoValley championships. He wasn't...at least not nearly often enough IN THE VALLEY for one of the top salaries in college baseball. That's the rub. Where does Lamb's salary come in among volleyball coaches? Does his "comparables" have down years?

Gene was still winning. His last year, he won the tournament championship. Lamb”O” last four years are much more similar to Butler than Gene. Losing . Gene still knew how to win— always. Lamb does not or at least has forgotten. It is not a good comparison.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Stephenson

I recall our first year in the AAC and Lamb lecturing on the radio how the AAC coaches should schedule. How things have turned. The question is why?

Some of you blindly supported Butler the same manner in which you support Lamb. Wake up.
Imo, I suppose he has one more year and if not competitive for the AAC championship, he’ll need to leave.

I do hope he does well and will be pulling for him and the VB team.

[jimshocker]

So, am I to suppose that you have not come across any in the major volleyball conferences that are higher? Just for comparison sake you understand. After all, you do have a bone to pick here and we all want to be fair.

To be Fair:

Upon further review. Based on a better source. Jerrit Eliot at Texas compensation is $500k+, sorry for the misinformation.


However, to answer your above question about others.

From Salaries.gov which is the resource for Public Colleges that have to list coaching salaries.

Chris Lamb and his $373,184 salary-

Nebraska and Penn State pay their coaches more in the Big10.
NO publicly listed salary in the PAC12 is higher than Lambo.
NO publicly listed salary in the ACC is higher than Lambo.
NO publicly listed salary in the SEC is higher than Lambo.
Texas pays their coach more in the Big12.

Chris is the highest paid coach in the AAC by a long shot.

Also keep in mind as you talk about Wichita State University.

The above schools call their volleyball "camps", The Nebraska Volleyball Camp, The KU Volleyball Camp, The Penn State Volleyball Camp, etc..... ALL advertising their University.

The Wichita State Volleyball camp? There isn't one.

It's called the Chris Lamb Volleyball Camp and is separate from WSU.

The camp being separate is not uncommon as many coaches use their own LLC for Camps and generate more revenue for themselves, the advertised camp is still "insert college" Vball camp.

Chris Lamb comes first with the WSU camp.

Rooting for WSU Volleyball should not mean blindly following the coach.

[ShockTalk]

Gene was still winning. His last year, he won the tournament championship. Lamb”O” last four years are much more similar to Butler than Gene. Losing . Gene still knew how to win— always. Lamb does not or at least has forgotten. It is not a good comparison.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Stephenson

I recall our first year in the AAC and Lamb lecturing on the radio how the AAC coaches should schedule. How things have turned. The question is why?

Some of you blindly supported Butler the same manner in which you support Lamb. Wake up.
Imo, I suppose he has one more year and if not competitive for the AAC championship, he’ll need to leave.

I do hope he does well and will be pulling for him and the VB team.

More fair statements than before, however, what Gene's record was against Valley teams in the late 80's thur the 90's was much different than what is was after that at the time he was being paid a top national salary. Gene also had off the field issues. You don't need to preach about Butler to me as I had pretty much bailed on him after 2 years for various reasons.

I believe Lamb is going to have to turn things around quickly, but I still support him.

[ShockTalk]

To be Fair:

Upon further review. Based on a better source. Jerrit Eliot at Texas compensation is $500k+, sorry for the misinformation.


However, to answer your above question about others.

From Salaries.gov which is the resource for Public Colleges that have to list coaching salaries.

Chris Lamb and his $373,184 salary-

Nebraska and Penn State pay their coaches more in the Big10.
NO publicly listed salary in the PAC12 is higher than Lambo.
NO publicly listed salary in the ACC is higher than Lambo.
NO publicly listed salary in the SEC is higher than Lambo.
Texas pays their coach more in the Big12.

Chris is the highest paid coach in the AAC by a long shot.

Also keep in mind as you talk about Wichita State University.

The above schools call their volleyball "camps", The Nebraska Volleyball Camp, The KU Volleyball Camp, The Penn State Volleyball Camp, etc..... ALL advertising their University.

The Wichita State Volleyball camp? There isn't one.

It's called the Chris Lamb Volleyball Camp and is separate from WSU.

The camp being separate is not uncommon as many coaches use their own LLC for Camps and generate more revenue for themselves, the advertised camp is still "insert college" Vball camp.

Chris Lamb comes first with the WSU camp.

Rooting for WSU Volleyball should not mean blindly following the coach.

THIS is the way you discuss/debate the worthiness of a coach. Keep keyboard emotions out of it and I appreciate your more fact driven approach here. Personally, I still like Coach Lamb and enjoy his pre-match talks. I'm pulling for him to turn it around, but obviously, the clock is ticking.

Also, hoping others here that are more in the know will give their thoughts, opinions, and facts based on your post.

[shoxlax]

jimshocker Put me in the camp that your data is a bit concerning, axe to grind or not. I had no idea he made that much nor how favorably his salary compared to other volleyball coaches. I would expect him to make the NCAA tournament regularly with those numbers.

[Veritas]

Something clearly isn’t working well but I think we all can agree that we hope the program does well. The clock is clearly ticking louder each year he fails to compete successfully in the AAC. He’s a well compensated coach which is not translating into success.

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

The $373K isn't his annual salary. If you go to https://openrecords.wichita.edu/view...log/entry/870/ you can find his contract among other things:

Contract - https://openrecords.wichita.edu/inde...TB_iframe=true - section 3.1.1 mentions the base salary starting in 2017, 3.2 has incentives, 3.3 mentions a one-time payment of $160K in 2019.

Reduction - https://openrecords.wichita.edu/inde...TB_iframe=true - a lot of the coaches took a one week salary reduction last year, the amendment lists his base salary for 2019-20 as $189K.

The $373K amount is likely his base plus that one-time payment mentioned in his contract.

Also, this document shows outside income - https://openrecords.wichita.edu/inde...TB_iframe=true - and if you scroll to page 55 you'll see his and 56 has his wife's.

[shoxlax]

The $373K isn't his annual salary. If you go to https://openrecords.wichita.edu/view...log/entry/870/ you can find his contract among other things:

Contract - https://openrecords.wichita.edu/inde...TB_iframe=true - section 3.1.1 mentions the base salary starting in 2017, 3.2 has incentives, 3.3 mentions a one-time payment of $160K in 2019.

Reduction - https://openrecords.wichita.edu/inde...TB_iframe=true - a lot of the coaches took a one week salary reduction last year, the amendment lists his base salary for 2019-20 as $189K.

The $373K amount is likely his base plus that one-time payment mentioned in his contract.

Also, this document shows outside income - https://openrecords.wichita.edu/inde...TB_iframe=true - and if you scroll to page 55 you'll see his and 56 has his wife's.

This makes more sense

[jimshocker]

The $373K isn't his annual salary. If you go to https://openrecords.wichita.edu/view...log/entry/870/ you can find his contract among other things:

Contract - https://openrecords.wichita.edu/inde...TB_iframe=true - section 3.1.1 mentions the base salary starting in 2017, 3.2 has incentives, 3.3 mentions a one-time payment of $160K in 2019.

Reduction - https://openrecords.wichita.edu/inde...TB_iframe=true - a lot of the coaches took a one week salary reduction last year, the amendment lists his base salary for 2019-20 as $189K.

The $373K amount is likely his base plus that one-time payment mentioned in his contract.

Also, this document shows outside income - https://openrecords.wichita.edu/inde...TB_iframe=true - and if you scroll to page 55 you'll see his and 56 has his wife's.

Good info!

Agreed the $160,000is probably the reason for the $373 in 2019. $189k per year base is still Top 25 money and still Tops in the AAC.

If I am reading it correctly, Lambo parlayed a Conference winning season in 2017, into a $160,000 payment to encourage him to stay at Wichita State as the Volleyball Coach into the future. The future that has now produced 3 consecutive losing seasons? Dang!! It's almost like Arkansas offered him the Head Basketball job or something.

[1972Shocker]

The elephant in the room for me is the need for Beach. What I've read indicates that beach skills enhance indoor skills. Especially now that our league is oriented more to the south, having the ability to develop players through a beach season (most schools' top players play both sports) would be advantageous and possibly, with the right facility and fan support, make us more competitive in recruiting nationwide. There are just a few D1s in the region that play (Nebraska, Missouri State, TCU and UCA) and none in Kansas. I get that money is tight -- but there is a window of opportunity while the sport, now five years olde, is just getting rolling.

Beach Volleyball is an equivalency sport with a 6 total scholarship limit. The same as women's golf. The golf team typically plays 4 tournaments in the fall and 4 tournaments plus the AAC Championships in the spring. Requiring at least as much travel as Beach Volleyball would as local golf tournaments are few and far between especially early in the spring.

The format appears to be each team fields 5 doubles teams with each of those 5 parings matching up against a pairing from the opponent. Each of the 5 separate doubles pairings are best of 3 sets to 21 (win by 2 requirement). The overall match winner is the team that wins at least 3 of the 5 double pairings.

The D-1 teams somewhat in the region are Nebraska, Missouri State, Central Arkansas, TCU, Houston Baptist, Abilene Christian, Stephen F. Austin, and TAM-CC. NAIA Ottawa I noticed is a regular on Missouri States schedule.

Here is Missouri State's schedule from 2019 (the last normal season): https://missouristatebears.com/sport.../schedule/2019

In 2019 Missouri State played 24 matches in 5 tournaments and hosted 1 tournament and played 7 matches in Springfield.

Would it not makes sense to replace Women's golf with Beach Volleyball? Keep in mind the while you want to win at the highest level possible Beach Volleyball also has as one of its prime goals to make the full Volleyball program stronger. I am not really expecting WSU beach volleyball to be nationally relevant. Our golf team is certainly not nationally relevant I am not sure they will be relevant in the AAC (with all due respect to Taryn Torgerson who on the AAC individual Championship her last year as a Shocker and the 1st year the Shockers were in the AAC carrying the Shocks to a 5th place finish. I consider Taryn on outlier). Not sure the goal of either women's golf or beach volleyball is to be nationally relevant. Women's golf serves the purposes of qualifying our overall athletic program fir D-1 competition and not much else. It certainly does not raise any revenue to speak of. Beach volleyball would serve that purpose just as well, may be able to raise a little revenue and hopefully help make the regular volleyball program better. I think the Volleyball program can be consistently relevant in the AAC and occasionally relevant nationally. Not sure that will be the case for Women's golf. Whether we have access to the facilities needed for beach volleyball is hard to say. I know the Wichita Sports Forum has 4 indoor and 3 outdoor sand volleyball courts: https://wichitasportsforum.com/sand-volleyball/

Whether or not an AD in Boatright's boat will be anxious to rock the boat in any way at this point is probably unlikely.

[Wuzee]

Yeah, I don’t see us cutting a sport to get beach. And, as you may know, thats a problem because Title IX works both ways, and I’ve been told that we have more women’s schollys than men’s. Adding a new women’s sport without cuts might require the addition of a men’s sport to balance.

It’s probably not in the cards, but we’ll see what happens when we have a new president. You never know.