Alex Rivas - Committed to South Florida

[tgcshock]

The biggest mistake I see being perpetuated in this thread is the idea that what we have is all we'll ever need.

Amen.

For some time, I have been wondering how we will fare against Creighton's big man. I am speaking of the one, who just killed us last year with inside play - scoring and rebounding.

As Coach Fogler once said, "Six-ten, shot blocking rebounders are in scarce supply. If you know where one is and he is available, let me and I will go sign him up."

This was his terse reply to a caller, who wanted to know why he did not recruit a six-ten, shot blocking rebounder. Problems of this sort are not easy to solve, especially for non power conference teams.

When the Shockers go up against a Noah type, it will be darn tough.

Let's be clear that the answer to a "Big Baby" or a "Noah" is not just recruiting big time atheletic centers. There were many big time BCS programs with big time centers who got dominated by LSU and Florida. And too be fair, not many people were talking about Noah as the best post player when Florida was losing the SEC regular season last year. He had a great championship run but has looked good but not great again so far this season. Let's be clear, you can have the biggest toughest tallest center in the country and "Big Baby" will get his points. The questions is whether you have players who can buy into a team concept that can overcome a team with a superstar at any position.

[SubGod22]

The biggest mistake I see being perpetuated in this thread is the idea that what we have is all we'll ever need.

Amen.

For some time, I have been wondering how we will fare against Creighton's big man. I am speaking of the one, who just killed us last year with inside play - scoring and rebounding.

As Coach Fogler once said, "Six-ten, shot blocking rebounders are in scarce supply. If you know where one is and he is available, let me and I will go sign him up."

This was his terse reply to a caller, who wanted to know why he did not recruit a six-ten, shot blocking rebounder. Problems of this sort are not easy to solve, especially for non power conference teams.

When the Shockers go up against a Noah type, it will be darn tough.

Let's be clear that the answer to a "Big Baby" or a "Noah" is not just recruiting big time atheletic centers. There were many big time BCS programs with big time centers who got dominated by LSU and Florida. And too be fair, not many people were talking about Noah as the best post player when Florida was losing the SEC regular season last year. He had a great championship run but has looked good but not great again so far this season. Let's be clear, you can have the biggest toughest tallest center in the country and "Big Baby" will get his points. The questions is whether you have players who can buy into a team concept that can overcome a team with a superstar at any position.

Amen

[The Mad Hatter]

The biggest mistake I see being perpetuated in this thread is the idea that what we have is all we'll ever need.

Amen.

For some time, I have been wondering how we will fare against Creighton's big man. I am speaking of the one, who just killed us last year with inside play - scoring and rebounding.

As Coach Fogler once said, "Six-ten, shot blocking rebounders are in scarce supply. If you know where one is and he is available, let me and I will go sign him up."

This was his terse reply to a caller, who wanted to know why he did not recruit a six-ten, shot blocking rebounder. Problems of this sort are not easy to solve, especially for non power conference teams.

When the Shockers go up against a Noah type, it will be darn tough.

Let's be clear that the answer to a "Big Baby" or a "Noah" is not just recruiting big time atheletic centers. There were many big time BCS programs with big time centers who got dominated by LSU and Florida. And too be fair, not many people were talking about Noah as the best post player when Florida was losing the SEC regular season last year. He had a great championship run but has looked good but not great again so far this season. Let's be clear, you can have the biggest toughest tallest center in the country and "Big Baby" will get his points. The questions is whether you have players who can buy into a team concept that can overcome a team with a superstar at any position.

Amen

Ditto. The reason Davis and Noah are considered dominant players is because they will get their points against anyone. Plenty of 6'10"+ shot-blocking rebounders have looked pretty bad trying to guard them. One on one, no one can guard them when they are on, so team defense (which we have in spades) is the only hope of slowing them down.

[1972Shocker]

I don't understand the assumption or implication that an athletic big man can not be expected to buy-in to Coach Turgeon's team concept. Both on offense and defense.

I'm not sure that is what is being implied, but that is how it is coming across to me.

A big time shot-blocker would thrive in Mark's team defensive system because so many blocks come from the help side defender.

One of the big reasons that they recruited Arbry Butler was that he has big-time athleticism and it was specifically mentioned that he could be a big time shot blocker. Of course, I'm sure Coach Turgeon expects Arbry to buy into his concept of team basketball. That pretty much should be understood to all Shocker fans at this point in time.

[wushock]

Do you really want to sign up the big 6-10 players Fogler signed

[tgcshock]

I don't understand the assumption or implication that an athletic big man can not be expected to buy-in to Coach Turgeon's team concept. Both on offense and defense.

I'm not sure that is what is being implied, but that is how it is coming across to me.

A big time shot-blocker would thrive in Mark's team defensive system because so many blocks come from the help side defender.

One of the big reasons that they recruited Arbry Butler was that he has big-time athleticism and it was specifically mentioned that he could be a big time shot blocker. Of course, I sure Coach Turgeon expects Arbry to buy into his concept of team basketball. That pretty much should be understood to all Shocker fans at this point in time.

As I posted earlier, "Third, of course, all things being equal height and athleticism is an advantage but the point is that all things are never equal. There are relatively few high quality big men to begin with. Of those there are, even the best are often enamored with shot blocking and dunking and are not readily coachable into something else (see KU). If you find the rare big who is everything in one package, he is more likely to end up at Duke than at WSU. So you looks for good big athletic post players but never at the expense of the fundemental things that has made you successful to begin with. "

The argument is not really against picking up a big man like this if we can get the right one but against Coldblooded's assertion that we are in desparate need of one, that we can't win it all without one, and that how others perceive us because we don't have one matters.

I am confident that if MT recruited Arbry, he will have the qualities we need in a big man but that's is what is important. We are winning against quality bigs without him right now. If he buys into the system, he can be the next wave of team players that do what Kyle, Phil and Ryan are doing now.

[1972Shocker]

I'm confident that not only is Coach Turgeon interested in recruiting players that can do what Kyle, Ryan and Phillip are doing now, but that can also do things that Kyle, Ryan and Phillip can't do now.

However, I am also confident that he won't recruit that talent unless he believes such player will buy in to the team concept and will be a good character kid, which I think everyone is pretty much in agreement is the current strength of the Shocker team.

[Ricky Del Rio]

Do you really want to sign up the big 6-10 players Fogler signed

I am pretty sure I did not suggest as much and I do suggest you re-read my post.

[H2OShock]

Alex Rivas, is 6"10 athletic can run, jump, knows how to play defense and averages double firgures in rebound. He blocks almost four shots a game.
Are you kidding me? Any man that knows anything about basketball would want a player like that. If Coach Turgeon is recruiting him, that is good enough for me.

We could use some more size with players that actually know how to play. Rivas does not sound like a guy that we have to hope that he gains some confidence.

[tgcshock]

Alex Rivas, is 6"10 athletic can run, jump, knows how to play defense and averages double firgures in rebound. He blocks almost four shots a game.
Are you kidding me? Any man that knows anything about basketball would want a player like that. If Coach Turgeon is recruiting him, that is good enough for me.
We could use some more size with players that actually know how to play. Rivas does not sound like a guy that we have to hope that he gains some confidence.

There is no evidence (that I am aware of) that Coach Turgeon is recruiting him. The whole thread has been a discussion of whether Turgeon would or should recruit guys like this (big athletes who might not be able to shoot) and whether WSU can dominate with team defense or whether we have to have a "big time" post player to beat top 25 teams.

[wufan]

He showed up to a WSU game and sat behind the bench. That only eludes to the rumor that he may be interested in the program. None the less, that makes him worth discussing on the recruiting thread.

[tgcshock]

He showed up to a WSU game and sat behind the bench. That only eludes to the rumor that he may be interested in the program. None the less, that makes him worth discussing on the recruiting thread.

I'm all for the discussion. My only issue was that H20Shock was supporting his argument with the point that Turgeon was recruiting Rivas and that the decision to recruit him justified the recruiting of guys like this as worthwhile. I just thought he was factually wrong.

This thread has led to a great discussion about what it is we think makes WSU successful now and whether or not we think it will continue to make us succesful in the future. Keep the discussion going but try to keep the facts straight while we do it.

[Aargh]

JUCO = eligibility used. I hope WSU can get HS or prep school guys and avoid the JUCO route if possible.

[shocker22]

JUCO also equals experience. If we can get a role player that can rebound and block shots, then it is worth it. If we didn't recruit JUCO we wouldn't have RM, and I think we all feel he was a successful recruit for his two years here.

[SubGod22]

But we lost a number of bigs due to transfer and injury when we got Martin. I think the program is at a point where I wouldn't go after a JUCO unless we were in desperate need of a certain player. I don't feel that way at the moment. I know we lose Martin and Wilson. We keep Phil and Durley. Durley I expect to get plenty of PT this season once he's ready to go. We don't know for sure what to expect from our two 6'10" guys, but we also have Brown and Butler who can play in the post next year as well as Bowles. Personally, I don't think I'd go after a JUCO.