Alex Rivas - Committed to South Florida

[tgcshock]

I don't know who you guys think I am but my personality is definitely not that of a "small-minded" guy who carries a chip on his shoulder. I am competitive and try to be the best at everything I do and have had a fair amount of success in my life. When I think of Wichita State being where I want them it is not as David in a David vs. Goliath battle. I want WSU to be Goliath. Maybe you enjoy listening to people refer to our team as a bunch of "little kids from Wichita" but I surely don't. We are severely under-sized and if you think that isn't a HUGE factor over the course of a year than you need to do some more research. Yes, we barely beat LSU and survived a torrid comeback by SU but it was clearly evident in the 'Cuse game that we were at a disadvantage in the paint. It was also very clear that SU was a very lazy team. If they would have played all game like they did the last 10 minutes I don't think we would have gotten the win.

Enjoy the wins but don't let them go to your head. We are nursing a very big deficiency on the post in regards to size and it will surely come back to haunt us a couple times this season statistically. Maybe we don't lose too many games because of it thanks to our unbelievable guard play but there will be some statistical disparities that will leave us shaking our heads. Last year all everybody could talk about was Paul Miller because he was a "legitimate" big man. Paul brought us a lot of love and respect and wins. Mark knows we need size and he is trying very hard to bring it to us.

Don't lose perspective when discussing Billy Packer'itis. Billy Packer wants the "club" to remain exclusive, I do as well. I just want WSU to earn an invitation like Gonzaga did. I, like you still want "stars" in college basketball. Why do you think you got so excited when we scheduled LSU or SU? I just want WSU to become one of those stars and I think we can.


T


...8)

I don't know about you but I got excited because I thought our players and our style of play could beat teams like that if given the opportunity and we did. (Not after we went out and got bigger but right now, on their home courts).

[The Mad Hatter]

I don't know who you guys think I am but my personality is definitely not that of a "small-minded" guy who carries a chip on his shoulder. I am competitive and try to be the best at everything I do and have had a fair amount of success in my life. When I think of Wichita State being where I want them it is not as David in a David vs. Goliath battle. I want WSU to be Goliath. Maybe you enjoy listening to people refer to our team as a bunch of "little kids from Wichita" but I surely don't. We are severely under-sized and if you think that isn't a HUGE factor over the course of a year than you need to do some more research. Yes, we barely beat LSU and survived a torrid comeback by SU but it was clearly evident in the 'Cuse game that we were at a disadvantage in the paint. It was also very clear that SU was a very lazy team. If they would have played all game like they did the last 10 minutes I don't think we would have gotten the win.

Enjoy the wins but don't let them go to your head. We are nursing a very big deficiency on the post in regards to size and it will surely come back to haunt us a couple times this season statistically. Maybe we don't lose too many games because of it thanks to our unbelievable guard play but there will be some statistical disparities that will leave us shaking our heads. Last year all everybody could talk about was Paul Miller because he was a "legitimate" big man. Paul brought us a lot of love and respect and wins. Mark knows we need size and he is trying very hard to bring it to us.

Don't lose perspective when discussing Billy Packer'itis. Billy Packer wants the "club" to remain exclusive, I do as well. I just want WSU to earn an invitation like Gonzaga did. I, like you still want "stars" in college basketball. Why do you think you got so excited when we scheduled LSU or SU? I just want WSU to become one of those stars and I think we can.


T


...8)

I guess Texas A&M is too small to compete at the highest level because they lost to LSU (eventhough their starters run 6'9", 6'10" in the post and have 6'9" and 6'8" coming off the bench).

I guess OSU is too small because (at a nuetral site) they had a big lead that SU almost overcame (eventhough they have Mario Boggan in the post).

Like I said, I care about results, not perception. Cold is just afraid that we won't be taken seriously because we are small. I don't care if we are taken seriously if we keep winning. This is not college football, ultimately perception doesn't determine championships, the play on the court does.

[C0|dB|00ded]

C0|d is afraid of nothing. It is this lack of fear and unhealthy large dose of confidence that allows me to post in such an honest fashion. The beautiful thing about our argument is that it will be resolved in time. All the things I am hoping for will come to pass and you will enjoy them like I will regardless if you understand why they are necessary at this juncture.


T


...8)

[tgcshock]

C0|d is afraid of nothing. It is this lack of fear and unhealthy large dose of confidence that allows me to post in such an honest fashion. The beautiful thing about our argument is that it will be resolved in time. All the things I am hoping for will come to pass and you will enjoy them like I will regardless if you understand why they are necessary at this juncture.


T


...8)

Ran out of arguments, have we?

[C0|dB|00ded]

I don't know who you guys think I am but my personality is definitely not that of a "small-minded" guy who carries a chip on his shoulder. I am competitive and try to be the best at everything I do and have had a fair amount of success in my life. When I think of Wichita State being where I want them it is not as David in a David vs. Goliath battle. I want WSU to be Goliath. Maybe you enjoy listening to people refer to our team as a bunch of "little kids from Wichita" but I surely don't. We are severely under-sized and if you think that isn't a HUGE factor over the course of a year than you need to do some more research. Yes, we barely beat LSU and survived a torrid comeback by SU but it was clearly evident in the 'Cuse game that we were at a disadvantage in the paint. It was also very clear that SU was a very lazy team. If they would have played all game like they did the last 10 minutes I don't think we would have gotten the win.

Enjoy the wins but don't let them go to your head. We are nursing a very big deficiency on the post in regards to size and it will surely come back to haunt us a couple times this season statistically. Maybe we don't lose too many games because of it thanks to our unbelievable guard play but there will be some statistical disparities that will leave us shaking our heads. Last year all everybody could talk about was Paul Miller because he was a "legitimate" big man. Paul brought us a lot of love and respect and wins. Mark knows we need size and he is trying very hard to bring it to us.

Don't lose perspective when discussing Billy Packer'itis. Billy Packer wants the "club" to remain exclusive, I do as well. I just want WSU to earn an invitation like Gonzaga did. I, like you still want "stars" in college basketball. Why do you think you got so excited when we scheduled LSU or SU? I just want WSU to become one of those stars and I think we can.


T


...8)

I don't know about you but I got excited because I thought our players and our style of play could beat teams like that if given the opportunity and we did. (Not after we went out and got bigger but right now, on their home courts).

I am VERY EXCITED about our wins. What excites me even more is that those wins will hopefully take us one step closer to recruiting the type of athletes we just defeated.

I am not a fan of the "Little Engine That Could" or "Cinderella". The idea of Wichita State being put in the same light as GMU and their "Cinderella" season last year turns my stomach. I want WSU to arrive at the party and be expected to dominate like it did in days past. I want the Shocker men's basketball program to carry the swagger of the men's baseball program... we are getting closer...

It is a great day to be a Shocker!


T


...8)

[SubGod22]

I think we'd all agree that we'd like a big (6'10") man who could be a presence. But to say we're in desperate need and won't have the success we desire without that guy is a little short sighted in my opinion. It would help, nobody is saying otherwise, but to say we can't reach a level we want without it is absurd.

[C0|dB|00ded]

C0|d is afraid of nothing. It is this lack of fear and unhealthy large dose of confidence that allows me to post in such an honest fashion. The beautiful thing about our argument is that it will be resolved in time. All the things I am hoping for will come to pass and you will enjoy them like I will regardless if you understand why they are necessary at this juncture.


T


...8)

Ran out of arguments, have we?

No, forgive me for speaking in parables. Let me expound:

Regardless of those not understanding the need for size at the moment, we are going to get bigger and you will enjoy our size regardless of your earlier perceptions, beliefs, or opinions.


T


...8)

[C0|dB|00ded]

I think we'd all agree that we'd like a big (6'10") man who could be a presence. But to say we're in desperate need and won't have the success we desire without that guy is a little short sighted in my opinion. It would help, nobody is saying otherwise, but to say we can't reach a level we want without it is absurd.

I don't want to start a new argument but why do you think there were so many predictions that we were going to lose at LSU or 'Cuse on Shockernet? Do you think it was because of our back-court? We did win both of those games. Were you surprised? If so, why? The nation was certainly surprised. Why?

Desperate might not have been the right word sitting at #10 in the AP but we do look grossly under-sized compared to the teams we have beaten and there was a point in the SU game where we were just getting dominated. Watch the last 6 minutes of the game a couple times.. it is very painful to watch.. Now imagine if SU played like that the whole game?

Okay, this is my last post on this subject.. I am getting very behind and I feel I have presented my case clearly! :D


T


...8)

[WSUwatcher]

Shooters

I personally am another who's very happy that MT recruits shooters, because sometimes a guy simply has no touch and really CAN'T be taught much about shooting. Xavier McDaniel learned to shoot, and so did Cliff Levingston, to name a couple of shining examples, but we've also seen guys wear the Shocker colors who were an adventure every time the ball left their hands.

As to whether the "work" Rivas needs on offense involves his shooting, I have no personal knowledge, but I did see that he was at just 52+% on a fairly decent number of free throws through 12 games -- not great (although, again, no one here would throw Ryan Martin back even though his FT percentage last year was barely better than that). And he is just a freshman.

By the way, Rivas also has a Pratt teammate (sorry, Royal), a 6-5 forward who is also a freshman, from Australia. I suspect Coach Coxsedge is aware of him.

[SubGod22]

I'm not really arguing with you here Cold. I mostly agree. It's just when you used "desperate" that I took exception to. I thought we'd win both games. But I will admit that Big Baby had me a little worried. Size is part of it. But he's just a really good post player as well. I wasn't all that concerned with SU. The guys I watched the game with could tell you that. The perception is you have to have a couple of BIG men to compete. Yes, it definately helps to some extent. I don't think it's as big a deal as what you seem to be implying here. We are bringing in a 6'9" guy next year. Is that good enough? There's no doubt in my mind that we will get bigger. I'll be happy with it. But I don't think our lack of size is really going to hold us back this year. Sure, I'd like to have seen RBrad step up and play, but we'll be just fine without that height. And once Durley is ready to go that will give us some more bulk inside. Still not 6'10" but good enough for me.

[pinstripers]

I said something about being perceived as being something-or-other. Wow, everybody got their stuff hot. If nobody honestly cared about how we are preceived by others, half the threads on this board would never be started. Waters, Fudge Packer, Digger, mid-major, no respect, etc..........

[1972Shocker]

Obviously, you want good basketball players. The more athletic and/or the bigger they are the better if you can get them.

If Coach Turgeon wasn't interested in some decent size we would not have the two 6'10" projects we know have on our roster.

Patrick Bryant at Bradley was a force inside without being a great offensive player, although he was much better as a sophomore than he was as a freshman. I don't think he was drafted in the NBA because he was a great offensive presence.

Gene Wiley who played for the Shockers in the early 60's was a decent offensive player but was not a 1,000 point career scorer, but was a monster on the defensive end. Dave Stallworth has said they could gamble big time on the perimeter because if your man beat you, Gene was their guarding the basket. There have been only 10 triple doubles in Shocker history. Gene Wiley had 4 of those. All of his triple double were points, rebounds and blocks. 12-13-15, 17-16-12, 22-23-10 and 12-15-12. (49 blocked shots in those 4 games - not too shabby considering the Shocks have 14 blocks in 6 games as a team this year).

Whether or not Rivas is that type of guy, I have no idea. I trust the Coaches to properly evaluate that.

That doesn't mean that you can't be competitive with a smaller team. Obviously you can as the Shockers are proving. However, an athletic big man just adds one more dimension for your opponent to deal with.

If size didn't matter we wouldn't be that anxious to get J.T. Durley into the mix this year.

There is not doubt that size is not everything nor the most improtant thing. But a good, athletic, big TEAM has a built in advantage over good, athletic, small TEAM.

The Shockers have been able to overcome this natural disadvantage against LSU and SU with outstanding team play, particularly on the defensive end, and great coaching. These were cases where a good small TEAM beat a lesser TEAM made up of good, bigger individuals.

Fortunately, a lot of these big, athletic NBA types are not into playing great team ball.

If Turgeon coaches a big, athletic glass eater, he will have to learn his role in the team concept or Turgeon won't put up with him.

[rjl]

Sorry, but anyone using the LSU example of a 6'9" center as the embodiment of us beating a "tall, bigtime player" just doesn't understand how we beat them.

We beat Big Baby on offense because we were quick. We didn't beat Big Baby on defense. In fact, he out-rebounded the hell out of us, and he put up decent numbers.

So, what would have happened if the ball fell the other way one or two times in that game? Who knows?

Yes, we won this time. But who's to say we couldn't have won by a larger margin if we had a 6'10" ferocious rebounder? A margin big enough to not be effected by a luck-of-the-bounce that could go the other way next time?

And what if we play a team with a big time center who can match our quickness, like Florida? Our solution to Davis wouldn't work against Noah.

The biggest mistake I see being perpetuated in this thread is the idea that what we have is all we'll ever need.

[Uncle Rico]

Re:

#12 Pratt beats #11 Coffeyville in double OT last night.
Rivas grabs 15 rebounds in the win.

[Ricky Del Rio]

The biggest mistake I see being perpetuated in this thread is the idea that what we have is all we'll ever need.

Amen.

For some time, I have been wondering how we will fare against Creighton's big man. I am speaking of the one, who just killed us last year with inside play - scoring and rebounding.

As Coach Fogler once said, "Six-ten, shot blocking rebounders are in scarce supply. If you know where one is and he is available, let me and I will go sign him up."

This was his terse reply to a caller, who wanted to know why he did not recruit a six-ten, shot blocking rebounder. Problems of this sort are not easy to solve, especially for non power conference teams.

When the Shockers go up against a Noah type, it will be darn tough.