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Would you support the return of football at WSU?

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  • Random thoughts from maniac:

    1. I have not been a proponent for returning football, and I have connected the success of our basketball program to absence of football draining our resources. However, I have to admit hearing Bardo talking about the possibility of football returning to WSU caused my heart to go pitter-patter. Just the thought of going to campus on autumn days (or evenings) for football games is very appealing to me.

    2. I don't know if this is entirely accurate but I recently heard someone say that WSU is one of about 25 or so D1 athletic programs that operates in the black. I don't see how we can successfully sustain the level of success our athletic program is achieving unless there is a deep war chest that underwrites whatever deficits that result from football. In addition, there will be substantial start up costs for football. So, we are most likely talking about lots and lots of dollars. WSU has received a lot of generous support from benefactors and corporate sponsors, but I'm not sure the necessary money could be raised from these sources. It seems like we would have to view this as a quality of life issue for the community and look at some tax support to help underwrite the football program. Could that happen? I really don't know.

    3. This really is about a lot more than athletics. Really it is directly tied to the Bardo's academic goals for WSU. It's really related to the marketing and image of WSU:

    a. Can WSU achieve the enrollment goal of 22K without football? Maybe or maybe not, but I have some doubts that it can. Students are concerned about quality of life and for many having football is an important component of their student experience. I can tell you that in the fall I saw many tweets from students wishing that they had football games to go to. I don't think that we have to look any farther than Manhattan to see what the impact football can have on enrollment.

    b. Does an emerging research university belong in the Missouri Valley Conference? Whether we like it or not, a good part of our recognition and credibility comes from our conference affiliation. I think that both in athletics and academics, WSU is outgrowing the MVC. We need to move on if possible. Can WSU upgrade athletic conferences without a football program? I know others may think differently, but I don't think as a public institution in the central region of the country that we have any opportunities of upgrading without football. I think the days of hybrid conferences (Olympic sports schools in football conferences) are gone. I have a feeling that Bardo has had the discussions with conferences like the MWC and AAC and has come to the same conclusion. Thus, he is now looking at the feasibility of adding football. Otherwise, we already would have a new and better conference affiliation.

    c. WSU is targeting Texas and Oklahoma for enrollment growth. Membership in the AAC would help with our exposure and marketing to prospective students in these areas. The MVC's footprint does not provide us exposure to our geographical target market.

    4. It seems that attendance for volleyball would be adversely impacted by football. I suspect a good portion of our perennial top 10 attendance is due to the absence of football on the campus.

    5. Bardo is to WSU academics what Marshall is to WSU basketball. He is a university president on steroids. He is exactly what our university needs. He is taking WSU academically to a much higher level. He is a visionary and a leader. He is not afraid to address the obstacles that prevent him from achieving his goals for this University. I have no idea if he can bring football back, he should be commended for looking at it to see if it can be done.

    6. Even if we had a competitive football program there are other obstacles to a conference upgrade. Namely, our relatively smaller TV market.
    Last edited by Shocker-maniac; December 14, 2015, 11:43 PM.
    ShockerNet is a rat infested cess pool.

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    • Originally posted by wusphlash View Post
      I believe new programs must start in FCS or lower.
      Wichita State would have to start in FCS. Since 1993, football has to be played at the same division level as other sports.

      It seems your timeline would be similar to Georgia State’s: year 1- start recruiting, practices, and scrimmages; year 3- play official games at FCS level; year 6- move to FBS.

      If the Shockers add football, I hope my Drake Bulldogs can be your first game!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Lurking Dog View Post
        Wichita State would have to start in FCS. Since 1993, football has to be played at the same division level as other sports.

        It seems your timeline would be similar to Georgia State’s: year 1- start recruiting, practices, and scrimmages; year 3- play official games at FCS level; year 6- move to FBS.

        If the Shockers add football, I hope my Drake Bulldogs can be your first game!
        Haha. I see you...looking for a chance to beat up on "big brother". lol
        "You Don't Have to Play a Perfect Game. Your Best is Good Enough."

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        • Just because WSU finished with a four-game winning streak over Drake (and an all-time series advantage of 25-10 over the Bulldogs), doesn't mean I'm holding onto the past. That was 30 years ago -Ha! No grudge here...I barely remember any details.

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          • Question. Since Bardo made the statement that he would only entertain playing FBS football, how does it work if a non-football school in an FBS conference starts up a football program? I'm assuming he made the statement for the purpose of being in added to a FBS conference. What if such a conference took WSU for all other sports initially as long as WSU guarantees to have football within several years?

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            • Originally posted by Lurking Dog View Post
              Wichita State would have to start in FCS. Since 1993, football has to be played at the same division level as other sports.
              Totally agree with the first sentence. I assume most on SN are aware of this as well.

              Don't know what you mean with the second sentence. FBS/FCS delineation only applies to football. D1 is just D1 otherwise.

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              • Originally posted by ShockTalk View Post
                Question. Since Bardo made the statement that he would only entertain playing FBS football, how does it work if a non-football school in an FBS conference starts up a football program? I'm assuming he made the statement for the purpose of being in added to a FBS conference. What if such a conference took WSU for all other sports initially as long as WSU guarantees to have football within several years?
                I am assuming the same thing. I believe he made the statement under the assumption that we would be joining another conference with the agreement that after we became a member we would add football. I also believe if that is the case that WSU would be starting up at the FBS level and playing at the FBS level (there may be some probationary period).

                I believe that Bardo is not interested in FCS football at all, because that would not help us reach our goal of getting into a better conference. I believe that Bardo's main goal is to get us into the best possible conference for the long term good of our basketball program. If we have to add football to do that, then he is willing to see if that is feasible and make that happen if it is.


                I will support whatever WSU decides to do. If we re-start football I will do everything I can to help make it successful.
                Last edited by shocker3; December 22, 2015, 02:14 AM.

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                • I will support whatever WSU decides to do. If we re-start football I will do everything I can to help make it successful.[/QUOTE]

                  Way to step up Charles.:)

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                  • Just a question that I remember about some of the initial attempts at generating interest in bringing back football...When WSU abandoned football we were a Division I level and there was talk at that time that since there was no FBS/FCS division at the time that WSU MIGHT be allowed to re enter the fray at whatever level they applied. Since WSU was not a school just starting a new program but resurrecting one they discontinued.

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                    • Originally posted by SHOCKvalue View Post
                      Totally agree with the first sentence. I assume most on SN are aware of this as well.

                      Don't know what you mean with the second sentence. FBS/FCS delineation only applies to football. D1 is just D1 otherwise.
                      The second part is an acknowledgement that the NCAA doesn't sponsor every sport at every division level (thus, many D-II schools play D-I hockey). Also, the NCAA has specific exemptions to the "same division" rule, e.g. Johns Hopkins is allowed to play D-I lacrosse. Maybe anyone interested in this subject can consult the online D-I manual.
                      Last edited by Lurking Dog; December 22, 2015, 09:33 AM.

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                      • Originally posted by pogo View Post
                        Just a question that I remember about some of the initial attempts at generating interest in bringing back football...When WSU abandoned football we were a Division I level and there was talk at that time that since there was no FBS/FCS division at the time that WSU MIGHT be allowed to re enter the fray at whatever level they applied. Since WSU was not a school just starting a new program but resurrecting one they discontinued.
                        Division I football has been subdivided since 1978. About 10 years ago, I-A was renamed Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) and I-AA was renamed Football Championship Subdivision (FCS). People of a certain age will probably always use I-A/I-AA.

                        The current rules say D-I startups will be FCS. Given the difficulty of going from zero-to-competitive FBS program, you don't really want to play an AAC schedule in year one anyway.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Lurking Dog View Post
                          Division I football has been subdivided since 1978. About 10 years ago, I-A was renamed Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) and I-AA was renamed Football Championship Subdivision (FCS). People of a certain age will probably always use I-A/I-AA.

                          The current rules say D-I startups will be FCS. Given the difficulty of going from zero-to-competitive FBS program, you don't really want to play an AAC schedule in year one anyway.
                          Agree. What I'm trying to sort out is Bardo's statement. He will only entertain FBS football, so I will assume he knows the rule and that he understands the value of starting at the FCS level.

                          However, he is not going to start up a football program without it becoming a FBS level program.

                          That leaves 3 options:

                          1) Not going happen: An FBS conference guarantees admittance, in the future, if we start up football and play the require amount of time at the FCS level in our current or other FCS conference (also has the risk of the conference not even being there in the future). Regardless of the problems of the second and third part of this, no conference is going to make that "guarantee".

                          2) Not likely to happen: We start up football at the FCS level where we are and hope that a FBS conference later picks us up. This would be counter to Bardo's statement as there would be no guarantee of being at FBS level, ever, and he would not (should not) gamble the startup costs based on that statement.

                          3) More likely than the other two: We join an FBS conference for basketball only (if we could get away with that from the MVC) leaving the other sports at the MVC and start up football there or take all sports to the FBS conference and start up football at a FCS conference at the same time. What FCS conference is going to have anything to do with either of those options?

                          None of this sounds likely, so I'm wondering how much of Bardo's "looking into football" is just lip service to those wanting football or to show our willingness for football to other FBS conferences. We would certainly need their help in making the arrangements to get to the FBS level and I don't think that's going to happen.

                          Anyone have any other scenarios?

                          Comment


                          • I would expect something in between options 1 & 2. Again drawing on the Georgia State example--they changed basketball conferences at the same time they went FBS. Expect the same at WSU.

                            Little chance of the Shockers being stranded as a FBS football independent. But if this is all riding on an invitation to the AAC, some professional reputations will be on the line. At any rate, I don't see WSU leaving the Valley until they can join the AAC or Mountain West. Worst case scenario would be to stay in the Valley awhile, and (like Navy in the AAC) get football-only membership in a FBS conference (C-USA West?) until the Shockers can find a satisfactory all-sports conference home.
                            Last edited by Lurking Dog; December 22, 2015, 02:53 PM.

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                            • What I'm starting to think is the most likely, if it's decided to restart football, is moving to the Mountain West in all olympic sports to offset Hawaii football. We start football in the MVC, just as several other schools do without membership in the other Valley sports. Then when Hawaii eventually drops football, WSU is next in line.

                              I give that about a 5% chance of happening.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by RoyalShock View Post
                                What I'm starting to think is the most likely, if it's decided to restart football, is moving to the Mountain West in all olympic sports to offset Hawaii football. We start football in the MVC, just as several other schools do without membership in the other Valley sports. Then when Hawaii eventually drops football, WSU is next in line.

                                I give that about a 5% chance of happening.
                                I say 'one in a million' chance...

                                "You Just Want to Slap The #### Outta Some People"

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