I don't see why WSU can't field a football team already.

[rrshock]

The Metropolitan area has 486,000 people per census.

Was that just the Wichita city limits? Or really Sedgwick, Butler and Harvey counties?

[SpanglerFan316]

The Metropolitan area has 486,000 people per census.

592,126 in 2007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...opolitan_areas
584, 671 in 2004 http://www.wacc.org/community/move_qfacts.asp
549,790 in 2002 http://www.wichita.gov/CityOffices/C...on_Profile.htm

[rrshock]

The Metropolitan area has 486,000 people per census.

592,126 in 2007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...opolitan_areas
584, 671 in 2004 http://www.wacc.org/community/move_qfacts.asp
549,790 in 2002 http://www.wichita.gov/CityOffices/C...on_Profile.htm

Those were the numbers I thought would be closer

[Aargh]

I just became aware of this thread and haven't read all of it, but...

1) Football at WSU would almost certainly have to go to D1 for Wichita fans to show much interest.

2) CS isn't big enough for a D1 budget. The only hope for covering a D1 budget would require a CS upgrade - probably to about 50K.

3) Then WSU has to attract 1 out of every 10 people living in the metro area to fill those seats. And provide parking for about 20,000 cars.

A couple of years ago I ran the numbers on just the annual costs. It came out to WSU needing about $50 per person at the games and 50,000 people in the stadium at home games. Paydays for D1 wins to become bowl-eligible have increased astronomically since then, but so have coaching salaries. It might be as low as clearing $200,000 per home game (instead of $250,000) by now. Just the coaching staff is going to cost about $2 mill per year.

$10 mill won't touch the startup costs if the goal is to go to D1. It's probably more in the range of $50 mill or above. $100 mill wouldn't surprise me if you look at what needs to be spent in the first 10 years. That's over and above the annual operating costs of the program.

Raising that money is a big obstacle. Then you've got to put 40K - 50K butts in the stands every home Saturday and those people have to provide $40 - $50 of net revenue to WSU just to cover the costs of having a D1 team.

Even if the money could be raised, there's a strong possibility the AD has to keep going back to the well for more donations. Is it worth that kind of drain on the WSU donation sources to have a potential financial disaster of a FB program? Or should the donor sources be nurtured to support the current sports to the largest possible extent?

There is no tradition of students or alumni attending FB games. There is no tradition of local residents attending FB games. There is no regional tradition of WSU FB attracting fans who will drive several hours to go to a game.

Getting 1 out of 10 people within commuting distance of Wichita to every FB game is about as close to hopeless as you can get. The 500K population available to attend includes babies, nursing home residents, etc. Taking a family of 4 to a game would cost $200-$250 - or the amount to generate that level of revenue would have to come from students or donors.

FB at WSU is as dead as General Custer. Give it up.

[RHshoxfan]

I think it would definatly get supported at the D2 level..

[tgcshock]

I just became aware of this thread and haven't read all of it, but...

1) Football at WSU would almost certainly have to go to D1 for Wichita fans to show much interest.

2) CS isn't big enough for a D1 budget. The only hope for covering a D1 budget would require a CS upgrade - probably to about 50K.

3) Then WSU has to attract 1 out of every 10 people living in the metro area to fill those seats. And provide parking for about 20,000 cars.

A couple of years ago I ran the numbers on just the annual costs. It came out to WSU needing about $50 per person at the games and 50,000 people in the stadium at home games. Paydays for D1 wins to become bowl-eligible have increased astronomically since then, but so have coaching salaries. It might be as low as clearing $200,000 per home game (instead of $250,000) by now. Just the coaching staff is going to cost about $2 mill per year.

$10 mill won't touch the startup costs if the goal is to go to D1. It's probably more in the range of $50 mill or above. $100 mill wouldn't surprise me if you look at what needs to be spent in the first 10 years. That's over and above the annual operating costs of the program.

Raising that money is a big obstacle. Then you've got to put 40K - 50K butts in the stands every home Saturday and those people have to provide $40 - $50 of net revenue to WSU just to cover the costs of having a D1 team.

Even if the money could be raised, there's a strong possibility the AD has to keep going back to the well for more donations. Is it worth that kind of drain on the WSU donation sources to have a potential financial disaster of a FB program? Or should the donor sources be nurtured to support the current sports to the largest possible extent?

There is no tradition of students or alumni attending FB games. There is no tradition of local residents attending FB games. There is no regional tradition of WSU FB attracting fans who will drive several hours to go to a game.

Getting 1 out of 10 people within commuting distance of Wichita to every FB game is about as close to hopeless as you can get. The 500K population available to attend includes babies, nursing home residents, etc. Taking a family of 4 to a game would cost $200-$250 - or the amount to generate that level of revenue would have to come from students or donors.

FB at WSU is as dead as General Custer. Give it up.

Wish I had written that post. That says it about as clearly as it can be said. The only thing that I would add is that everyone who talks about bringing football back assumes that we will have a winning football team. I am not saying that we wouldn't win but nothing is certain. Whether it is Div. I or Div. II, I wonder what kind of numbers a 3-8 squad might bring in.

[The Mad Hatter]

I think it would definatly get supported at the D2 level..

Really? The fact is that WSU shut down football because it couldn't get much fan support when it was D1. Do you really think that people are going to come out in droves for D2?

[1972Shocker]

It took us 15-20 years to dig out of the financial hole we created for ourselves with our previous football program. We finally have some first clsss facilities for our student-athletes and we are now in a fiscally sound position. After wondering in the desert for 20 years our basketball program is now showing signs of regaining some of its past glory. Wasn't it great to be able to offer a package and have the facilities to attract and sign a Greg Marshall.

It will be interesting to see how the fund raising for the $5.5 million Baseball Facilities project goes. I get the sense that Shocker financial backers are getting close to their limits on what they are WILLING to do to support Shocker athletics.

On the other hand it was encouraging to see that the We Are Wichita State campaign raised $48 million for academic programs.

[DUShock]

Has anyone done the econometrics on the basketball subsidy? And I am not trying to stir trouble but I'm honestly curious. I'm certainly not advocating cutting my beloved Men's Basketball team!

[DUShock]

It took us 15-20 years to dig out of the financial hole we created for ourselves with our previous football program. We finally have some first clsss facilities for our student-athletes and we are now in a fiscally sound position. After wondering in the desert for 20 years our basketball program is now showing signs of regaining some of its past glory. Wasn't it great to be able to offer a package and have the facilities to attract and sign a Greg Marshall.

It will be interesting to see how the fund raising for the $5.5 million Baseball Facilities project goes. I get the sense that Shocker financial backers are getting close to their limits on what they are WILLING to do to support Shocker athletics.

On the other hand it was encouraging to see that the We Are Wichita State campaign raised $48 million for academic programs.

The only question I have is this: “Has anyone actually seen a report on ALL the facts which includes a study of total expenditures within the university that correlates to the loss of football?” I'm not talking a snapshot or snip-it’s but the same analysis for the entire university budget?

I do not know of one. One of my degrees is in economics and I apply the basic and simple but often overlooked philosophy of "Liars use figures and figures never lie" approach. To do this one must apply the same set of conditions across the board. To my knowledge this has never been done. If there was a comprehensive final report, including comparisons of like variables with KU & KSU I’m sure a lot of the distrust of the numbers would be put to rest.

[DUShock]

I would like to add that I'm not casting aspersions upon members of current or past administrations but simply asking if there is an apples to apples follow-up applying academic peer review standards to the facts? As our beloved RDR used to say "Speak with facts".

Go Shocks!!!!

[1972Shocker]

If you laid all the economist in the world end to end you still wouldn't reach a conclusion.


(Just a joke I heard an econmist tell) :D


The fact of the matter is that WSU athletics were swimming in a sea of red ink when Football was shut down and now we are in the black. Has the lack of football had a significant negative impact on the overall progress of the University. I don't know and I'm not sure if it is possible to isolate a cause and effect since other factors may be at play (for example, Butler County Juco's aggressive expansion into the Wichita market).

What would draw more out of the area Student's to WSU? Football or outstanding academic programs? What is easier to achieve? Should we really try to emulate KU and KSU or shouldl we create our own niche and identity? Should KU and KSU be the benchmark or should we benchmark ourselves against programs that are more similar to our circumstances. Not sure who that would be. Perhaps Cincy or Memphis. Tulsa, except that it is a private school. No doubt it is a tough problem to resolve with a definitive answer. Pesonally, I don't think there is a definitive answer that everyone will agree on. No matter how many studies are done or how well they are done.

[SpanglerFan316]

Just so you know, I came into our football game tonight as QB for a few plays; one long TD pass, no INTs. :yes: We lost but had fun. The KC Chiefs lost and didn't have fun (but got paid). If you need a QB, contact my agent.

[WstateU]

If she had only graduated from The Wichita State University versus Ohio University… our football dilemma might be resolved. :good:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/china/article2617243.ece

[kcshocker11]

Lets get our basketball program up to a Gonzaga level and our baseball program back to where it used to be, then start thinking about football. :posterwsu: