[POST GAME] WSU vs SD ST - What We Learned

[ShockerFever]

How well did our 2006 team fare against top 25 teams during the pre conference portion of the season? I can't remember the scores, but I seem to remember a team that learned a few lessons the hard way....

Please no comparisons to that team and that time period. It was a different age back then, even if it was only 5 years ago.

Apples to oranges.

[proshox]

It is very convenient to be able to discount such recent, similar and relevant history.

If I thought the shockers were a legit top ten or twenty team I would be disappointed, but we all knew this team had to make a few leaps and it is going to take time. For all we know they have made the leap, but were unlucky to face two really good teams on a hot streak.

[tropicalshox]

What we learned if we didn't know it...Kyles is the man.

[ABC]

Such doom and gloom over two losses over top-ten type teams.

It does suck because we just don't get that many opportunities against teams like this.

Maybe the solution is to schedule tougher, including road games, but then again, that didn't work out so good in 2006-07.

Also, I attended the game I do not think WSU was soft. (Gabe Blair getting an intentional foul is kind of antithetical to soft.)

They got rattled during an unbelievable run and SDSU interior play was simply better. As Sullentrop said in today's post-game blog, there may not be ten teams in America that could win at SDSU this year.

Hey, UVA just won at Virginia Tech.

[Ricardo del Rio]

I don't understand. You want Hatch to continue to get his minutes but not start? Is starting that important?

TM has been very good in his career as a 2, you think he struggles as a 1, so now you want him to play a 3?

If there is a fixture at a position right now, it is Kyles at the 2. Hence, I do not believe Coach should mess with the fixture. If Kyles plays the 2, then Murry must play either the point or 3.

[hoopsnut]

I was at the game and have been trying to read through all of the comments. Here are a few of my thoughts (for what they are worth):

1) Rebounding: From the post position, Blaire is our best rebounder. He has the mass to hold his position, athleticism to get to the ball, and is not afraid of the contact. Stutz has been playing too soft, Durley simply doesn't seem interested in defense or rebounds (maybe he is afraid of picking up fouls, if you are on the bench with fouls, you cannot score), and Ellis simply has to expend too much energy to maintain position given his weight. On the offensive end, Stutz and Durley spend too much time roaming the 3 point line to be effective offensive rebounders. Ellis spends most of his offensive time setting perimeter screens and is also out of offensive rebounding position.

2) 3 Point Shooting: We shoot too many. I don't think 3 pointers should be the main course, important to the game, but not the primary weapon. Our perimeter players are better at making them this year, but continually settling for 3's is why we shoot way fewer free throws than our opponents. We need post offense, so Stutz and Durley need to stay off the 3 point line and play with their back to the basket. Can Stutz and Durley shoot and make them? Sure they can, but if I were given the choice of them shooitng 3's without people in position to rebound or having our perimeter players shoot them with rebounders, well...

3) Ball Handling: We seemed frantic with the ball and the second half melt down exposed us. Unless you have a spectacular ball handler, passing is the best way to beat a press. In my opinion, our ball handling is far from spectacular, so we should be working on good spacing, getting open, and passing the ball up the floor rather than the dribbe attack.

4) Dribble penetration: We give up dribble penetration too much. This has been a problem year after year. Coach needs to figure this out and make adjustments. My thought would be to make the opponent prove that they capable of lighting up the 3 before we guard it so closely that we invite dribble penetration.

5) Time outs: This has been a bone of contention in the discussions. The first timeout called was by the inbounder (Toure'?) to prevent a 5 second call, not Coach. Marshall is notorious for holding the time outs. Yes, having time outs at the end of a close game is valuable, but if the wheels are coming off, start calling them. If you don't, you're likely on the losing end of a blowout with a bunch of timeouts in the bank. Use them to stem the tide and help the guys regroup.

6) Fouls: The team fouls alot. My understanding (and I think someone else commented on this) is that not many fouls are called in practice. News flash, guys usually play like they practice. If they are allowed to pound one another in practice, they are probably going to do it in the game. This gives the other team unguarded scoring opportunities with the clock stopped and, maybe more importantly, really shortens the bench forcing lineups that may not be the most productive.

Just some of my thoughts, so have at it...

[shox1989]

Such doom and gloom over two losses over top-ten type teams.

It does suck because we just don't get that many opportunities against teams like this.

Maybe the solution is to schedule tougher, including road games, but then again, that didn't work out so good in 2006-07.

Also, I attended the game I do not think WSU was soft. (Gabe Blair getting an intetional is kind of antithetical to soft.)

They got rattled during an unbelievable run and SDSU interior play was simply better. As Sullentrop said in today's post-game blog, there may not be ten teams in America that could win at SDSU this year.

Hey, UVA just won at Virginia Tech.

The UVA win is looking better all of the time. They may end up being a big win for us by selection Sunday.

[Snapshot9]

I wouldn't get too excited, if UVA hadn't gone 'cold', we would have lost that game by 20 points, or did you forget how that game started out?

[1979Shocker]

I wouldn't get too excited, if UVA hadn't gone 'cold', we would have lost that game by 20 points, or did you forget how that game started out?

That's just part of the ebb and flow of the game. They started out hot, we started out cold. Then they got cold and we got hot.

It all balanced out in the end.

[AndShock]

I wouldn't get too excited, if UVA hadn't gone 'cold', we would have lost that game by 20 points, or did you forget how that game started out?

If we hadn't decided to turn the ball over before halfcourt, rebounded, and took good shots, we would've beat SDSU. What's your point?

[calfan]

They have a great front line that I was worried about before the game.
My concerns were warrented.

I think Marshall could have called a timeout. I was at the game and here is when I called a timeout:
DWill turns it over again, Gabe Blair fouls. Two free throws. and a basket. SDSU by 9 with 13:04. TIME OUT WSU (that's me).

After their run, WSU then went on an 8-0 run of their own to cut the lead to 8 or 10. That is when, with 4 fouls San Diego State had to put Leonard back in the game.
San Diego State is good, but they aren't that good when Leonard sits with foul trouble.

Kyles and Hatch were both on the bench with 3 fouls during the run. That hurt.

Hatch can't stop an athletic SF. sorry, he just can't.

Hatch committed some silly fouls in the first half. Kyles, I just didn't see some of his fouls.

As someone said earler, our bigs don't box out well on our boards and don't go to our offensive boards well enough.

I think Stutts and Williams have regressed.

Ragland needs to run point, Murry needs to play somewhere else. I know that means someone would have to sit.

We don't play as well when Kyles and Hatch are in foul trouble.

San Diego State will probably be in the NCAAA tournament.

WSU lost to a good team, they will be O.K., but now they know there is still a LOT OF WORK to do if they want to play in March Madness.
Will they do the work, or just coast and be satisfied with where they are now???

[jocoshock]

[quote="RussDaBus"]

We learned that our next meaningful game isn't until March.

There all meaningful, cant lose to any cupcakes in our conference.

Yes we can. It's St. Louis or bust now.

I agree with this 98%. The only way I see us creeping in otherwise is if we run the table from here on out, then lose in the Finals of the MVC in a nail biter against the #2 team in the regular season. Then MAYBE we get an 11 or 13 seed.

You give that a 2% chance of happening?? I give it about a .00000002%.

Does anyone remember last year? Does anyone remember how many times we all said, "That's it, this loss is the one that does us in for an at-large hope" And then week after week, loss after loss, we kept being right on the edge of being in or out in bracketology until eventually we did ourselves in with too many losses down the stretch. It is not St. Louis or bust now, absolutely not. Does the fact that we lost our two games against ranked teams? Yes. Does it hurt that we do not play another tournament quality team until possibly bracket busters? Yes.

Our path is significantly harder than it would be if we could have won one of those games. But to say on December 4th that is it St. Louis or bust is naive as a college basketball fan. The MVC stinks this year, but it isn't the SWAC or the Big South.

It seems know one wants to consider that we could have won both the UCONN and SDSU games and still lost some stinkers down the road. Would our path be any smoother in that scenario or would the critics say we have regressed as a team and therefore are not worthy of a a ticket to the dance?

Sorry if the "Marshall Plan" is not executing exactly on schedule for everyone or if the Kool-Aid everyone was drinking over the summer had more sugar in it than it should have. The team however "soft" if looks right now is a damn site better than we had when Marshall got here. It is the most physical and athletic team we have had in years (30 years), but not perfect.

I remember when one of Smithson's highly touted MTXE teams lost to an unheard of New Orleans team, and when another highly touted Smithson team, ranked #2 in the nation, lost not one but two games in Hawaii against Rice and NC State. The team that lost to UNO went on to a 25-3 record and the other team finished 26-7 if I recall.

I'm not making any predictions, just not ready to jump off the bandwagon.

:goshocks: :goshocks:

[Kung Wu]

Sorry if the "Marshall Plan" is not executing exactly on schedule for everyone or if the Kool-Aid everyone was drinking over the summer had more sugar in it than it should have. The team however "soft" if looks right now is a damn site better than we had when Marshall got here.

I'll admit, my kool-aid is fermented -- but thish team ishn't shoft. It's just [hic] gonna take shome practish.

I'm shick of all the ninny-nannies with [hic] their "C'mon Shlutz get in the game". "Graham Hashish this and DWillish that." It's about the faaaans, maaaaan. Where's the hot chicksh in the front we were promished when we win 25 games lasht season? NCAA? NCBB? NCCC? Ima DD guy myshelf [hic]. What were we talkin' about?

[SHOXAAC]

I wouldn't get too excited, if UVA hadn't gone 'cold', we would have lost that game by 20 points, or did you forget how that game started out?

But we didn't lose the game by 20. One could say if WSU didn't self destruct Saturday night, we could have won. We did self destruct & we didn't win. It only maters what the final result was. Come March the WSU/SDSU game on 12/4/10 won't be dissected by the selection committee and neither will the WSU/VA game. Who won the game...period.

[DUShock]

I'm frustrated with the consistency of falling "just short" and of the uncertainty with the line-up as well as the inconsistency of play by all but Mr. Kyles. Such things are indicative of poor leadership and a lack strategic thinking.
Go Shocks!

Pretty easy to say from a 30,000 feet view huh? I am perplexed at the mass volume of posters in the past 15 hours or so. Some think the Shocks are intitled to win against a top-15 opponent (UConn/SDSU). Are you kidding me??? You don't think in the camps of UConn & SDSU, they aren't grinding to meet their expectations as well? They apparently have more talent than we do. Not much better, but apparently better at this point. Hey, I don't agree with every decision HCGM makes, but I also believe he is in a better position than you and me to think strategically and lead this group of 18-26 year-olds. Come on you are better than that...I hope. Get a grip...it's only the first week of December. Some of you are acting like bandwagon fans. Some questioned the Shockers were impatient and paniced last night. Look in the mirror people...you are doing the same thing. We aren't intitled to anything...we just have to work hard and smart, in addition to recognizing where we have to improve. Give this team a chance. Drinking to much koolaide gives your taste buds a false taste of security.

:wsu_posters:

So, we agree to disagree. You should deeper into the meaning of my post...

Go Shocks!!!!