[POST GAME] WSU vs SD ST - What We Learned

[wufan]

It's morning and I have a slightly calmer feeling about the game.

San Diego State is VERY GOOD! That team is better than UConn. Their front court is one of the best in the nation. Leonard is a beast!! He is the best of David Kyles and Toure Murry only 3 inches taller. White is also a beast. White is what Gabe Blair SHOULD be. The Aztecs three bigs were a step quicker than ours across the board, the have quick and strong hands. They made us look bad with their athleticism. Even with all of those imbalances, we played even to the Aztecs for 35 of the 40 minutes.

The Aztecs are a great rebounding team. Props to them for beating our butts on that stat. Their bigs were active and ours did not consistently get a body on them. That needs to improve. Our guys are used to using their athleticism to grab rebounds, but they got out athleted last night. The team rebounding effort was not there.

Defensively, we look awful when someone decides to drive the lane. Our help defense is slow to react resulting in a foul, or an easy pass to the open man on the other side of the basket. I don't understand why we are so bad on this, but again, this needs to improve. There were not alot of entry passes to the paint from the wing as I think our bigs do a good job of not allowing positioning. Not a lot of back to the basket scoring.

Offensively, our team is pretty damn good! The offense does not stall out. There aren't a lot of quick threes or times when we are forcing a shot as the shot clock winds down. We get good looks and hit a high percentage. David Kyles certainly helps, but overall I have been very pleased with our fast break offense, motion, and sets. Our big weakness here is strength with the basketball. We don't dribble very well when closely guarded. No one comes to help the ball handler by breaking to the ball or setting a screen. Get that resolved and we cut down the turn overs.

Most important lesson from last nights game...everyone stop and take a moment to enjoy David Kyles! He has shown an ability to be absolutely phenomenal thru 7 games. He is shotting 61% from 3 on 6 attempts per game! That is #2 in the nation for anyone that attempts more than 3 per game (14th overall with more than 2 attempted per game). He drives, dunks, gets steals and blocked shots. Enjoy David, because players like him don't come around every day.

[ShockRef]

San Diego State is VERY GOOD! That team is better than UConn. Their front court is one of the best in the nation. Leonard is a beast!! He is the best of David Kyles and Toure Murry only 3 inches taller. White is also a beast. White is what Gabe Blair SHOULD be. The Aztecs three bigs were a step quicker than ours across the board, the have quick and strong hands. They made us look bad with their athleticism. Even with all of those imbalances, we played even to the Aztecs for 35 of the 40 minutes.

Good Analysis.

The Gabe Blair comparison is spot on.
When Blair signed, White is the type of player it was hoped and could fill.

I'm not saying he doesn't contribute, because he plays hard and brings energy to the floor. He is a specimen and knows how to play the game, but this team needs a bit more offensive production from him.

His role on this team has been important but with the regression of Stutz, he really needs to step up and assume a greater role. 8)

[shockar25]

I'm sure someone has already mentioned something about this, but I though JT was incredible offensively. He didn't back down one bit to their athletic post players and his shot looked really sweet. As always his defense was so-so, but he's really developed into a solid back to the basket guy that has many different ways he can hurt you when he's looking to score. I think he'd probably have more points if he played more minutes.

[pinstripers]

I keep hoping JT's defense will improve to so-so. It won't.

[Aargh]

I'm sure someone has already mentioned something about this, but I though JT was incredible offensively. He didn't back down one bit to their athletic post players and his shot looked really sweet. As always his defense was so-so, but he's really developed into a solid back to the basket guy that has many different ways he can hurt you when he's looking to score. I think he'd probably have more points if he played more minutes.

I have a different opinion.

Durley played 30 minutes. He had 8 points and 4 boards. He was 4/7 from the field, but...

...Two of his misses were during the SDSU run on the few times when WSU actually got the ball into the front court. Those two misses were early in the shot clock. One was a 3 and the other was from 17'. Durley joined the panic mode that Ragland and Williams initiated.

Second year players and first year transfers can get rattled when things go bad and then they get worse. Seniors are supposed to stay calm and get things back on track - not taking quick shots they hope they can make.

[1972Shocker]

SDSU won at Gonzaga and beat down Saint Mary's why are some so shocked at last nights outcome?

Their front court is just amazing and I would guess one of the best in the country.

I didn't think it was WSU's backcourt that caused the loss. Giving SDSU 2-3 shots every other possession and about a 3 minute stretch where Marshall could have simply cut the run in half with a time out is what hurt them last night.

Durley needs to develop an interest in defense and rebounding instead of just getting his shot off. Stutz simply can't compete with that kind of quickness.

WSU will be fine but like almost any year in the valley they will need to win the tourney.

This is the second or third comment on Marshall not calling a time out. If I remember correctly, SDSU got a basket to go up one, a stop, and another basket. That's a 4-0 run. No TO needed. WSU promptly turned the ball over 6-0 run. TO...maybe, but come on, how many 6-0 runs are there in a game. WSU again turns the ball over, intentional foul 10-0 run. WSU can't get the ball in bounds...time out called. Team should be settled down and ready to play. WSU gets a fast break and misses two guarded bunnies. SDSU beats us down the court and scores. Ball turned over in the back court Aztecs score again. Time out called and we've only gotten the ball across half court twice (once on a fast break and once where the first pass in the set was stolen). When was Marshall supposed to call a time out? When they were shooting free throws? We only had the ball for about 30 seconds during that run. There were three times in which the team huddled to calm things down. The team simply collapsed for about 4 minutes. That is what cost us the game.

Actually we did have an unofficial timeout when the officials were huddled after the intentional foul. IIRC, 3G pulled the guys over until during that time.

[wufan]

I'm sure someone has already mentioned something about this, but I though JT was incredible offensively. He didn't back down one bit to their athletic post players and his shot looked really sweet. As always his defense was so-so, but he's really developed into a solid back to the basket guy that has many different ways he can hurt you when he's looking to score. I think he'd probably have more points if he played more minutes.

I have a different opinion.

Durley played 30 minutes. He had 8 points and 4 boards. He was 4/7 from the field, but...

...Two of his misses were during the SDSU run on the few times when WSU actually got the ball into the front court. Those two misses were early in the shot clock. One was a 3 and the other was from 17'. Durley joined the panic mode that Ragland and Williams initiated.

Second year players and first year transfers can get rattled when things go bad and then they get worse. Seniors are supposed to stay calm and get things back on track - not taking quick shots they hope they can make.

Per the ESPN play-by-play, Durley did not play during the Aztecs run.

http://espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=303380021

Let's stop and look at the 14 point run:

We-re up 3 at the 14:15 mark. Ragland gets a steal and has a charge called on him. It was a good call, but Ragland's ONLY TURN OVER OF THE GAME. People need to lighten up on Ragland because he is playing well. 4 assists to one TO last night and he continues to get heavy criticism. His defense needs work.

14:04 and Billy White gets the and one to tie the game. Coach Marshall CALLS A TIME OUT...Quit complaining about Marshall not calling time out.

DWill misses a shot, Gabe Blair gets a rebound and gets stuffed. Aztecs beat us down the court and Leonard gets the and one at the 13:37 mark. SDSU by 3.

DWill turns it over on an in bounds after a foul. At least we got it across half court on this possession.

Aztecs get the easy lay up and are up 5 with 13:20 to play.

DWill turns it over again, Gabe Blair fouls. Two free throws. and a basket. SDSU by 9 with 13:04.

Murry turns it over in back court and The Aztecs are up by 11 with 12:53 to play. We can't in bounds it and another TO is called. Defensive stop by the Aztecs, defensive stop by the Shockers and then Kyles hits a 3 at the 12 minute mark to stop the bleeding.

The Aztecs scored 14 points in 71 seconds and we took two shots (one possession) and two time outs.

The run isn't quite over. DJ Gay (not only a basketball player, but a star MC at the rainbow club in Califonia :lol: ) assits Leonard who answers with a three. Gabe Blair misses a jumper. Aztecs score. Blair misses another jumper, Aztecs score and with 10:40 left HCGM calls another time out. Shocks come back with an 8 point run but the game is already decided.

Between the under 16 and the under 12 WSU took three time outs, had four turn overs by three point guards, and SDSU made all four free throws and scored 14 points on possesions/5 field goal attempts.

I don't think Durley was the issue here.

[eeshocker]

I agree with Aargh. JT tends to put up some questionable shots at times. I also think TM does this at times too. During that stretch, what the shocks needed to do was bring the ball up and slow the pace down. Instead, they pushed the ball and rushed some shots. All that did was add to the tempo that SDST was thriving off of at the time.

Frankly, I am getting tired of seeing our "bigs" taking jump shots. As big and strong of a team we like to tell everyone we have, this team is a perimeter team. I think they should put the ball in the post on every possession personally. Even if the shot is not there, it might lead to some open 3pt shots. But HCGM gets paid to coach, so he must know something I don't. Maybe our "bigs" aren't very good and he is working around that.

[wufan]

I agree with Aargh. JT tends to put up some questionable shots at times. I also think TM does this at times too. During that stretch, what the shocks needed to do was bring the ball up and slow the pace down. Instead, they pushed the ball and rushed some shots. All that did was add to the tempo that SDST was thriving off of at the time.

Frankly, I am getting tired of seeing our "bigs" taking jump shots. As big and strong of a team we like to tell everyone we have, this team is a perimeter team. I think they should put the ball in the post on every possession personally. Even if the shot is not there, it might lead to some open 3pt shots. But HCGM gets paid to coach, so he must know something I don't. Maybe our "bigs" aren't very good and he is working around that.

Again, one jump shot and one blocked shot in the paint during the run...

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

What I learned last night....

IF we get solid play from Joe Ragland, we can be a Top 20 team.

IF we get solid play from Demetric Williams, we can be a Top 20 team.

IF we don't get solid play from one of these guys, we are an also ran.

Murry, Kyles, Hatch, Durley, Stutz, Ellis, Orukpe, and Blair are all key pieces we need. What they lack is what we had last year: A PG to make them better.

I believe we still have many opportunities to prove ourselves. When you look at this and the UCONN game, you will see we played both teams very tough, and even as bad as we played, and giving up the run we did, we were still in the game with 2 mins left. They did what a good team does and put us away, but we did what a good team does and battled back and didn't throw in the towel.

We win if we play at Koch. Bookmark that with candy and nuts, but we would.

[wufan]

What I learned last night....

IF we get solid play from Joe Ragland, we can be a Top 20 team.

IF we get solid play from Demetric Williams, we can be a Top 20 team.

IF we don't get solid play from one of these guys, we are an also ran.

Murry, Kyles, Hatch, Durley, Stutz, Ellis, Orukpe, and Blair are all key pieces we need. What they lack is what we had last year: A PG to make them better.

I believe we still have many opportunities to prove ourselves. When you look at this and the UCONN game, you will see we played both teams very tough, and even as bad as we played, and giving up the run we did, we were still in the game with 2 mins left. They did what a good team does and put us away, but we did what a good team does and battled back and didn't throw in the towel.

We win if we play at Koch. Bookmark that with candy and nuts, but we would.

Joe Ragland: 6.3 ppg (more than Hatch, Blair, Ellis, Stutz, Smith, Williams), 3.3 apg, 3.3 to 1 assist to turn over ratio. 19 minutes per game.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

What I learned last night....

IF we get solid play from Joe Ragland, we can be a Top 20 team.

IF we get solid play from Demetric Williams, we can be a Top 20 team.

IF we don't get solid play from one of these guys, we are an also ran.

Murry, Kyles, Hatch, Durley, Stutz, Ellis, Orukpe, and Blair are all key pieces we need. What they lack is what we had last year: A PG to make them better.

I believe we still have many opportunities to prove ourselves. When you look at this and the UCONN game, you will see we played both teams very tough, and even as bad as we played, and giving up the run we did, we were still in the game with 2 mins left. They did what a good team does and put us away, but we did what a good team does and battled back and didn't throw in the towel.

We win if we play at Koch. Bookmark that with candy and nuts, but we would.

Joe Ragland: 6.3 ppg (more than Hatch, Blair, Ellis, Stutz, Smith, Williams), 3.3 apg, 3.3 to 1 assist to turn over ratio. 19 minutes per game.

Im not putting down Ragland. I like the guy and as much as I love Williams potential, want him to get 30 mpg and be the floor leader. He obviously isn't doing something in practice or games that Coach likes, hence why he is at under 20 mpg.

WE NEED A LEADER ON THE FLOOR. We need a leader with the ball in his hands. We need someone to make everyone else better, control the game, control the tempo, and make the big shots.

Ragland has proven on the JUCO level he can do this. If he can prove it on this level, we instantly become a much better team.

I would love to see Williams get it as well, but he may be only a spark plug off the bench. That may be his role, but I sure would love to see more of him without his name all over our collapses. (SEE GAME BLOG ABOVE)

[shoxilla]

Let's keep in mind that it was a home game for SDSU. I say bring 'em on in March.

[eeshocker]

I agree with Aargh. JT tends to put up some questionable shots at times. I also think TM does this at times too. During that stretch, what the shocks needed to do was bring the ball up and slow the pace down. Instead, they pushed the ball and rushed some shots. All that did was add to the tempo that SDST was thriving off of at the time.

Frankly, I am getting tired of seeing our "bigs" taking jump shots. As big and strong of a team we like to tell everyone we have, this team is a perimeter team. I think they should put the ball in the post on every possession personally. Even if the shot is not there, it might lead to some open 3pt shots. But HCGM gets paid to coach, so he must know something I don't. Maybe our "bigs" aren't very good and he is working around that.

Again, one jump shot and one blocked shot in the paint during the run...

I am not talking about the run. I am referring to their game as a whole. Our bigs are soft and don't take it the hoop enougn, IMO. They settle for jump shots too often.

[ISASO]

I'd like to see Marshall start Gabe Blair in place of Stutz and coach him up. Go clean glass and look for more shots - good shots. Stutz will get more court time when he mans up.