WSU vs SIU -Hannah Day- Game Thread

[ShockerFever]

Toure was noticeably quiet again today. Had some bad TO's in the first half. Never really got in it.

Let me get this straight, you criticize when Toure' jacks up a bunch of shots instead of feeding the post. Then when we have a game where Toure' doesn't hunt for his shot at all (takes only 5 shots and hits 40%), is second on the team in rebounds, and plays good defense on Tony Freeman and you criticize him for that. He had two turnovers in the game (one less than Clevin and Demetric and the same as Graham and JT), yet you feel a need to single that out, for no apparent reason

What is your problem? His shot isn't falling for him right now, so you ask him to quit shooting. He does and you criticize him for never getting into the game.

If you are going to call out MTXE for making stupid criticisms of a sophomore big man with Stutz, maybe you need to call yourself out for making stupid criticisms of a sophomore guard in Murry.

It's better that he didn't force as many stupid shots this game. That actually took away the normal 5 or 6 blank shots (essential turnovers) he has been having lately.

He took less silly shots which was great, but still 4 points? That's pretty inconsistent. Why can't we see points increase with less stupid shots taken? That would be great.

Stupid criticisms? As GoShockers89 said, they were fair. For some reason, you think he can't be criticized. I guess we aren't watching the same kid.

[Ricardo del Rio]

[ShockerFever]

I may have missed some things but what's the official status on Blair? Is there a chance we get him back for St. Louis?

[Cdizzle]

I may have missed some things but what's the official status on Blair? Is there a chance we get him back for St. Louis?

Per Marshall's quotes, Blair was available for the SIU game, if needed. Otherwise they were saving him for St. Louis. Listed him as 80%. I think the main concern is how he feels the day after a game; they didn't want to have the same relapse by going too soon like last time. Hopefully another week will give him time to get fully healed for St. Louis.

[ShockerFever]

I may have missed some things but what's the official status on Blair? Is there a chance we get him back for St. Louis?

Per Marshall's quotes, Blair was available for the SIU game, if needed. Otherwise they were saving him for St. Louis. Listed him as 80%. I think the main concern is how he feels the day after a game; they didn't want to have the same relapse by going too soon like last time. Hopefully another week will give him time to get fully healed for St. Louis.

Thanks.

Smart move to let him rest up in what really was a "meaningless" game. If the team carries over well from today's performance into the tourney and you add a healthy Blair.. and well... I can think optimistic thoughts. :good:

[BostonWu]

I've been waiting for over a month now for coach to make the Stutz-Ellis switch. I've been saying "what in the world are you waiting for?" Now I'm sitting here wondering if the timing was all part of a well conceived strategy.

[The Mad Hatter]

Toure was noticeably quiet again today. Had some bad TO's in the first half. Never really got in it.

Let me get this straight, you criticize when Toure' jacks up a bunch of shots instead of feeding the post. Then when we have a game where Toure' doesn't hunt for his shot at all (takes only 5 shots and hits 40%), is second on the team in rebounds, and plays good defense on Tony Freeman and you criticize him for that. He had two turnovers in the game (one less than Clevin and Demetric and the same as Graham and JT), yet you feel a need to single that out, for no apparent reason

What is your problem? His shot isn't falling for him right now, so you ask him to quit shooting. He does and you criticize him for never getting into the game.

If you are going to call out MTXE for making stupid criticisms of a sophomore big man with Stutz, maybe you need to call yourself out for making stupid criticisms of a sophomore guard in Murry.

It's better that he didn't force as many stupid shots this game. That actually took away the normal 5 or 6 blank shots (essential turnovers) he has been having lately.

He took less silly shots which was great, but still 4 points? That's pretty inconsistent. Why can't we see points increase with less stupid shots taken? That would be great.

Stupid criticisms? As GoShockers89 said, they were fair. For some reason, you think he can't be criticized. I guess we aren't watching the same kid.

They are stupid criticisms because they are criticisms that want to have it both ways.

A) When it was pointed out that Toure' is statistically better in nearly every category over his freshman year, you claimed that the statistics don't tell the whole story.
B) When he plays a game where he plays good defense, rebounds the ball, shoot efficiently, and doesn't hunt for his shot; you want claim that his lack of points is all that matters.

A) When Toure' is shooting a lot, you want him to let the big men take those shots.
B) When Toure' is letting the big men take the shots, you want him to be more involved in the offense.

A) You call out MTXE over his criticism of a sophomore who has been inconsistent, but better than his freshman year.
B) You get defensive about being called out for your criticism of a sophomore who has been inconsistent, but better than his freshman year.

This doesn't even take into account the completely fictionalized criticisms you have made, particularly about turnovers. Toure' had 2 turnovers this game (a completely un-noteworthy total, and 1 less than Demetric who is being lauded with praise), yet you thought that this was a major aspect of how he played this game.

Your usual response to this is to phrase this criticism as "bad to's" or "critical mistakes." That way when someone points out that he only had two turnovers against SIU or that he has gone from a 0.9:1 assist to turnover ratio last year to a 1.5:1 ratio this year or that he is averaging less turnovers per game this year, you simply argue that somehow the turnovers this year were "worse turnovers." Of course, this is a statement that can't be proven, but it can't be dis-proven, so you act like it is a valid point.

Even your previous criticism that Toure' is hunting for his shot more this year than last year has no basis in fact (although both years Toure' has had that tendency). In reality, in spite of playing more minutes this year, Toure' has gone from taking 10.1 shots per game last year to 9.6 per game this year. In addition, his shooting percentages both from the field and from 3 are better this year, which would suggest that he is taking better shots than last year.

It is not the one comment on this thread, it is the cumulative criticism of Toure' on this board in which you attack him even if you did what you asked of him in your last criticism, you ignore any positive things he does that aren't tracked by stats while claiming negative plays not tracked by stats, you make critiques that you mock when done about other players, you make up criticisms not supported by the facts, and you suggest regression in his game, in spite of the facts being directly to the contrary.

Guess what? Toure', David, and Garrett have ALL been inconsistent. Guess what else? They are all underclassmen, and that's what you get with underclassmen! If these guys don't develop consistency as upperclassmen, then criticism is warrented, but at this point the criticism must at least be tempered by acknowledgment of their youth and of the progress they are making.

[ShockerFever]

Wow, a little defensive, eh?

It doesn't take rocket science for anyone to realize he just isn't the same player as last year, no matter what the statistics say. It also doesn't take rocket science to know that he's been a bit "out of it" for a while now. Ok.. YES.. I'm HAPPY that even though he scored less, he took less stupid shots. Fine, I take back the lack of scoring comment.

Maybe, I just have more expectations for him than you do, based on his abilities of last year as a freshman.

A lot of players have been justifiably questioned throughout the year. At the beginning of the year, I wasn't sold on GS either. He has since stepped up and made me eat some words. MTXE has had to eaten more. Right now, TM has not been stepping up. Until he proves me otherwise, expect me to watch him a bit more keenly than some others.

Sorry that you can't handle a few accurate comments.

[DUShock]

10. I thought the redshirts did a very nice job. None of them look intimidated. Of course, a 20 point lead helps a little. But still....

I think you meant walk-ons.

Practice squad = red shirts

[proshox]

It was fun to finally run those guys out of our gym. It seemed to me that every player for the shockers had a good stretch today and that is all it takes for this team to roll on offense. Here is to hoping JT comes out like this in the Lu.

[Ricardo del Rio]

10. I thought the redshirts did a very nice job. None of them look intimidated. Of course, a 20 point lead helps a little. But still....

I think you meant walk-ons.

Practice squad = red shirts

Yes, I know. I mis-spoke a number of times yesterday.

While I am dingy, I am not that dingy. Just a little dingy.

My equilibrium has been restored. Thanks to all.

[newshock1234]

I thought this was easily our most complete game of the season, from the start to finish we didnt let up and have one of those dreaded scoring droughts.

[Aargh]

Fever, you are so full of crap that I wouldn't touch you with a 10 foot pole, for fear of what I'd get on me.

[The Mad Hatter]

Wow, a little defensive, eh?

It doesn't take rocket science for anyone to realize he just isn't the same player as last year, no matter what the statistics say. It also doesn't take rocket science to know that he's been a bit "out of it" for a while now. Ok.. YES.. I'm HAPPY that even though he scored less, he took less stupid shots. Fine, I take back the lack of scoring comment.

Maybe, I just have more expectations for him than you do, based on his abilities of last year as a freshman.

A lot of players have been justifiably questioned throughout the year. At the beginning of the year, I wasn't sold on GS either. He has since stepped up and made me eat some words. MTXE has had to eaten more. Right now, TM has not been stepping up. Until he proves me otherwise, expect me to watch him a bit more keenly than some others.

Sorry that you can't handle a few accurate comments.

As I expected, a post that lacks any facts to support your argument, and an inability to address 90% of what I said in my post.

It doesn't take rocket science for anyone to realize he just isn't the same player as last year, no matter what the statistics say.

No, it doesn't take rocket science to realize that when all the facts are against your position, you probably shouldn't hold it.

Let's do the rundown, just to show how wrong you are:

Points Per Game:
Freshman - 11.0
Sophomore - 11.8

FG%:
Freshman - .371
Sophomore - .416

3-Point %:
Freshman - .321
Sophomore - .342

FT% (1 of 2 things he has been worse at, the other being blocks):
Freshman - .753
Sophomore - .686

Rebounds:
Freshman - 3.8
Sophomore - 5.0

Assist to Turnover Ratio:
Freshman - .9:1
Sophomore - 1.5:1

Shots Per Game:
Freshman - 10.1
Sophomore - 9.6

Blocks Per Game:
Freshman - .38
Sophomore - .23

Steals Per Game:
Freshman - 1.29
Sophomore - 1.52

As to those areas less easily measured by the stats, it has been pretty much universally agreed upon (by our coaches, opposing coaches, commentators, etc.) that Toure' has turned himself into a very good defender this year. In addition, all of his improvement has occurred while other teams are game-planing to stop him.

Apparently the only thing you paid attention to last year was the fact that Toure' hit a couple of game winning shots, and he hasn't this year - so you act like he isn't as good.

If you would pay attention you would realize that he is a better player for the first 39 minutes of the game this year, and even though he hasn't hit game winning shots in the last minutes, in numerous games he has picked someone's pocket at midcourt when we had a lead late to prevent someone else from getting a game winning shot against us.

Yes, you have presented no facts to back up your claim that Toure' is not as good as last year, but not only has that not stopped you from making that claim, you assert that it is self evident to anyone watching. And we should trust you because you already have such a great track record predicting the development of the sophomores on this team.

Sorry that you can't handle a few accurate comments.

[tgcshock]

Have to agree with TMH.

Did Toure' develop into the league MVP this year? No, but that was never a realistic expectation for his sophomore year.

Did he get better? Clearly.