KU fans just mad cause Wichita State was the last Kansas team in the final 4

[wufan]

Perez also got a lot of steals. He basically did it all. But, yeah, I would compare him to Baker.

As a 6-4, 220 lbs senior, he averaged 20 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, and 2 steals. He also averaged double figures every year and hit 190 threes at a clip of about 38%.

[Shocker1976]

My recollection of being told what happened with the Med School is pretty foggy, but I think it boiled down to Wichita State wanting to build a med center, KU rejecting it and claiming they had already been planning on building a KU Med School in Wichita. My dad told me all about it years ago, but I seem to have not retained a whole lot of it. My (often flawed) logic tells me to assume it was purely about money and stifling Wichita State's growth in order to re-establish big brother status.

If anyone who wasn't four when all this happened would like to correct/clarify/add anything to my assessment, please do. I always love learning more about Shocker history.

Anyway, in short, KU has a record of trying to keep us under their boot.

OK, I will let my blood pressure spike a few mm of mercury and provide some background on a medical school in Wichita:

1. In the 1950-60's rural Kansas faced a critical shortage of doctors, especially General Practitioners located in small rural communities.

2. Wichita Osteopathic Hospital located on the West side of the Arkansas River expressed an interest to meet this need by establishing an Osteopathic School of Medicine in Wichita. This medical school would have been affiliated with and work in close association with Wichita State University.

3. Kansas University during the 1950-60's declined to support a medical school in Wichita.

4. In the late 1960's the concept of a School of Osteopathic Medicine affiliated with Wichita State began to grow and gain momentum within the City and rural Kansas.

5. In 1971 Kansas University announced it would establish a "branch" of its Medical School and locate it on the WSU Campus. This action killed the Osteopathic Medical School concept.

There is a lot of background information available if you want to know it but my blood pressure is up so I will stop. Suffice to say as a kid growing up on a farm in rural kansas without access to a physician this topic is a sore point for my family and me. KU's performance in this matter is the foundation for my dislike of the Beakers.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Bragg might get drafted, not that he deserves it (see Chiek Diallo, Kelly Oubre, Josh Selby, etc.). I'm betting at least 1 or 2 of those 3 guys don't return.

Oubre is getting 19 minutes per game for a solid playoff bound team. That's not all that bad for the 15th pick in his draft in his 2nd year. The pick ahead of him (#14) is now in the NBA D-League. Most of the picks 10-20 from 2015 are currently playing fewer minutes than Oubre.

I understand the desire the slam him because of his time at KU and some of his comments, but it just isn't very logical to claim he didn't deserve to get drafted.

[Dan]

Oubre is getting 19 minutes per game for a solid playoff bound team. That's not all that bad for the 15th pick in his draft in his 2nd year. The pick ahead of him (#14) is now in the NBA D-League. Most of the picks 10-20 from 2015 are currently playing fewer minutes than Oubre.

I understand the desire the slam him because of his time at KU and some of his comments, but it just isn't very logical to claim he didn't deserve to get drafted.

Some guys just get lucky and land in the right situation. Maybe he's NBA material now, but he didn't do much for KU basketball.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Some guys just get lucky and land in the right situation. Maybe he's NBA material now, but he didn't do much for KU basketball.

I'm not sure whether to be more weirded out at how far you just tried to move the goalposts, or by how strange your argument at the goalpost's new location really is.

The original comment was that Oubre didn't deserve to be drafted. Even ignoring that there are 2 rounds, and pretending we are only talking round 1, there is no reason to look at him now and say he isn't 1st round material. Scouts saw him at KU and accurately judged him as a mid 1st rounder. He's performed in line with those expectations. I'm not sure how that is disputable.

Your new direction of "he didn't do much for KU" is also very strange. He was an integral player on a team that earned a 2 seed.

[jdshock]

If I remember correctly, Oubre was projected to go even higher than he ultimately did, which would mean it's even possible the Shockers helped knock him down a few spots.

[Cdizzle]

He was an integral player on a team that earned a 2 seed.

Was given a 2 seed.

26-8. kenPom of 12. sub-.500 road record. Handled by a 7 seed.

[Dan]

I'm not sure whether to be more weirded out at how far you just tried to move the goalposts, or by how strange your argument at the goalpost's new location really is.

The original comment was that Oubre didn't deserve to be drafted. Even ignoring that there are 2 rounds, and pretending we are only talking round 1, there is no reason to look at him now and say he isn't 1st round material. Scouts saw him at KU and accurately judged him as a mid 1st rounder. He's performed in line with those expectations. I'm not sure how that is disputable.

Your new direction of "he didn't do much for KU" is also very strange. He was an integral player on a team that earned a 2 seed.

I'm not really trying to have a serious discussion on Oubre and don't really care about the goalposts. Carry on.

[RoyalShock]

You can think what you want, but the Big 12 has been the top conference in KenPom* the last four years running. And no, you cannot use KenPom to justify our position that we get screwed on seeding (which is absolutely true) and turn around and ignore its application for conference quality.

*KenPom rates the conferences by taking the Adjusted Efficiency Margin of a team that would be expected to go .500 in conference play in a respective conference, just so the methodology is understood.

I'm willing to admit that KenPom overvalues WSU due to the domination (blowouts) of our conference. How much? I don't know. But it also seems to overvalue the Big 12, if the NCAA tournament is the benchmark.

Should a few games in the NCAA tournament be THE benchmark to judge a metric, rather than the 34 games leading up to it?

I say no, it shouldn't. So how do we judge the Big 12?

Something about their non-conf scheduling has discovered a "sweet spot" in the analytics that doesn't translate to success in the NCAA tournament when compared to the other power conferences. I'm just fine with admitting they are a solid, highly competitive regular-season conference. I wonder if it has to do with the bottom few teams being marginally better than their equivalents in other conferences. I wish I had time to do some research on that, but I don't. When the MVC was a top-7 league, it was largely due to the strength of the bottom half.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Was given a 2 seed.

26-8. kenPom of 12. sub-.500 road record. Handled by a 7 seed.

That's fair. Doesn't change my point though. It just bugs me when people take their dislike for a player and decide it makes it ok to make false statements about him. Oubre was judged as 1st round material then, and has turned out to be a mid-1st round talent after nearly 2 seasons. Anyone claiming he "didn't deserve to be drafted" is just letting their hatred of him get the best of them.

[Cdizzle]

It does change your point. It means the those who hand out evaluations are not always correct.

By the current, terrible, method for determining seeds, KU was a 2 seed.

By the current, terrible, standards for NBA basketball players, Oubre was a 1st round pick.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

You can think what you want, but the Big 12 has been the top conference in KenPom* the last four years running. And no, you cannot use KenPom to justify our position that we get screwed on seeding (which is absolutely true) and turn around and ignore its application for conference quality.

*KenPom rates the conferences by taking the Adjusted Efficiency Margin of a team that would be expected to go .500 in conference play in a respective conference, just so the methodology is understood.

Agreed.

Also, if we look at this year, the Big 12 performed almost exactly to seed expectations... probably the most of any of the conferences with multiple bids.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

It does change your point. It means the those who hand out evaluations are not always correct.

By the current, terrible, method for determining seeds, KU was a 2 seed.

By the current, terrible, standards for NBA basketball players, Oubre was a 1st round pick.

The committee is not the NBA. You know I think the committee has stunk more and more in recent years. Don't conflate the two entities.

So you are arguing that Oubre hasn't performed in line with being a top 30 pick?

[Cdizzle]

I make no argument other than how far you will defend all things KU.

[Heinro]

That's fair. Doesn't change my point though. It just bugs me when people take their dislike for a player and decide it makes it ok to make false statements about him. Oubre was judged as 1st round material then, and has turned out to be a mid-1st round talent after nearly 2 seasons. Anyone claiming he "didn't deserve to be drafted" is just letting their hatred of him get the best of them.

I don't think it is deniable that Oubre deserved to be a first rounder since he is playing 19 minutes per game as a 2nd year player.

I guess the way I look at it is KU can have as many of those one and done types as they want. The type that are not at KU to care about the uniform; they're there to try to earn more money. KU has had a lot of those one and done types: Oubre, Alexander, Dialo, Selby, the list goes on. I don't think those one and doners help improve KU when the going gets tough. KU has had really solid teams the last few years because they have the Ellises and Masons that value the uniform.

That is one of the things I respect about the emotion showed by Fox and Bam after their UNC loss. They've got to do what is best for them. They maximize their dollar potential leaving after this year. But I don't think anyone can say they didn't really care about wearing the UK uniform.