Other Valley Conference Games Thread 2016-2017

[proshox]

McIntosh was an absolute stud down the stretch and he has always seemed like a good guy.

Paris and Willis are like able as well.

[proshox]

I don't mind the concept, but they need to pick out a real metric

[wufan]

I don't mind the concept, but they need to pick out a real metric

As long as the selection committee values RPI, then the conference will push that. It's a good thing amongst much bad in this conference.

[stldog]

First tie breaker is record vs opponent. WSU and ISU look as though they will tie and split. RPI is the second tie breaker. The reason for this is to get teams to schedule up in the non-con. Most years is an easy WSU advantage vs ISU, but not this year.

So why would ISUr be ahead of WSU in this case? In head to head, you destroyed them. I am confused.

[Rollbird5]

So why would ISUr be ahead of WSU in this case? In head to head, you destroyed them. I am confused.

Illinois State won at home vs wsu
Wichita State won at home vs ISU

Wichita State is 1-1 vs Illinois State
Illinois State is 1-1 vs Wichita State

Thus each team is 1-1 versus each other so it cancels out, scoring margin doesn't matter

[1972Shocker]

So why would ISUr be ahead of WSU in this case? In head to head, you destroyed them. I am confused.

They split the season series 1 game each. Margin of Victory is not relevant.

[Aargh]

The Shox non-con took a crap on them. Some teams that were expected to be decent weren't. As a result of that Illinois State came out stronger in non-con rpi than the Shox. Shox lost every key game that could have bumped their rpi up, and the games we thought would be rpi bumps (Oklahoma, Long Beach State, Colorado State) didn't turn out to be as good as was expected.

The teams the Shox beat in non-con turned out to lose game after game after game. As a result of that, the Shox non-con wins are not impressive. I don't mind using rpi as a tie-breaker. Marshall did a heck of a job scheduling up, but if the teams on your schedule turn out to be duds, you're screwed in rpi. Most of the time rpi will favor a team that schedules tougher non-con opponents.

The Shox will get the 1 seed in St. Louis. IlSU has been on a steady downward trend for about the last month. They are wearing down, and are just barely beating teams they should be easily putting away. They still have @UNI. They were fortunate to get the W in Springfield and then at home against Loyola.

Someone will stick a fork in them well before Sunday in St. Louis.

[Dan]

There is a HUGE difference between Illinois state's 15-1 and WSU's 15-1

ISU is 15-1 because the rest of the league sucks balls. WSU is 15-1 because they dominate the sucky league. That''s what the so-called bracketologist experts don't get.

[stldog]

They split the season series 1 game each. Margin of Victory is not relevant.

But it SHOULD be.

That is my only point.

No way ISUr is the better team, and everyone knows that.

[Dave Stalwart]

It just occurred to me how funny it will be if Illinois State loses in St. Louis and predictably does not get an at-large and has to suffer the same fate that so many Valley teams have suffered.

If WSU lost on Sunday in the championship, I think our chances are a tiny shred better than theirs about getting an at large. I think there is a pretty good chance they get snubbed in that scenario. Not that I have any doubt WSU will play well down the stretch a remove all doubt. They may be in for the same treat MoSt had in '06 and '11

[shockmonster]

The Shox non-con took a crap on them. Some teams that were expected to be decent weren't. As a result of that Illinois State came out stronger in non-con rpi than the Shox. Shox lost every key game that could have bumped their rpi up, and the games we thought would be rpi bumps (Oklahoma, Long Beach State, Colorado State) didn't turn out to be as good as was expected.

The teams the Shox beat in non-con turned out to lose game after game after game. As a result of that, the Shox non-con wins are not impressive. I don't mind using rpi as a tie-breaker. Marshall did a heck of a job scheduling up, but if the teams on your schedule turn out to be duds, you're screwed in rpi. Most of the time rpi will favor a team that schedules tougher non-con opponents.

This is what doesn't make sense to me. We beat OU and Tulsa. ISUR beat Hawaii and lost to a Tulsa. We lost to Louisville, OSU, and Michigan State. ISUR lost to Murray State and TCU. Someone who understands it (from a logical point of view) needs to explain it. This makes no mention to the facts that we dominated Valley foes when they squeaked by.

[AndShock]

Who you beat does not matter with RPI.

Your winning percentage. Opponents winning percentage. Opponents opponents winning percentage.

Our RPI would (for the most part) be exactly the same if we were 25-4 with losses to Bradley, Drake, Evansville, and South Carolina State.

[Aargh]

I don't think the Shox have to win Sunday in St. Louis. I think IlSU has to. Votes in the polls matter. I'm surprised IlSU isn't getting any, but they have no national name or respect. Shox have both. There's pushback if the Shox aren't invited. There's little or none if the 'Birds aren't invited.

It also matters if you've been there before. Regardless of what the NCAA tries to say, they're still staging a made-for-TV event and they are going to put teams in that event that the TV viewers want to see. That's where the P5 conferences with their well-known teams have a big advantage. The Shox have been there 5 years in a row and have been popular with viewers. That puts a team on "the right side" of the bubble.

A F4, a S16, and one of the more memorable games in recent history (against Kentucky) all work in favor of the Shox. Even with a Sunday loss, the Shox would go to Selection Sunday with a 28-5 record. With the Shox history and a W/L record like that, it puts the Committee in a position to look for reasons to include, rather than exclude, them. IlSU doesn't have any of that going for it.

[ShockerFever]

Deontae Hawkins makes Kyle Weems look like Mother Theresa.

[WuShock16]

Deontae Hawkins makes Kyle Weems look like Mother Theresa.

Here's a tougher one: is Hawkins worse than P'Allen Stinnett?

I expect a compare/contrast paper. Single-spaced, Arial 12-point font. 500 words...or just enough to get your point across.

A little hint on the grading: if you conclude that both were/are total pieces of 💩💩, you'll get an automatic A+.