Oklahoma State ***OFFICIAL*** Game Thread

[SHOCKvalue]

We would have lost regardless, all else held equal, but holy hell the refs made this game nearly unwatchable. It was terrible, no matter who you were pulling for on Saturday.

The game @ OU in OKC, and this game at IBA, are really the two opposite ends of the spectrum with how games are being called today.

[ShockdaWorld]

I think you're both right. I clipped the video: http://gfycat.com/YawningSillyGuineapig

In my opinion, that shouldn't be called a foul, but he's definitely in the arc so it's not a charge.

If Shaq jumps there, straight up, with hands straight up in the air, would the verticality rule come into effect and make it a non-foul? I don't think it was a foul either way, but I wonder about how that play is being called. It seems to be excessively inconsistent, not just from one game to the next, but from one possession to the next.

[im4wsu]

If Shaq jumps there, straight up, with hands straight up in the air, would the verticality rule come into effect and make it a non-foul? I don't think it was a foul either way, but I wonder about how that play is being called. It seems to be excessively inconsistent, not just from one game to the next, but from one possession to the next.

I believe you are correct, if Shaq leaves his feet and goes straight up, then it is not a defensive foul, even though he is in the arc.

[pinstripers]

I believe you are correct, if Shaq leaves his feet and goes straight up, then it is not a defensive foul, even though he is in the arc.

"straight up" is in the eye of the beholder

[SHOCKvalue]

In the eyes of the ref, did SM foul in jdshock's gif by that almost imperceptible movement into the defender at the end? Seems like a reach, but I'm not qualified to go all "that is all", so whatever.

[shockmonster]

I think you're both right. I clipped the video: http://gfycat.com/YawningSillyGuineapig

In my opinion, that shouldn't be called a foul, but he's definitely in the arc so it's not a charge.

So since Shaq isn't moving and he is totally vertical, this isn't a foul on Shaq. Am I right? I don't think we need to get into a duscussion on Landry even though his defense lacks in this instance. Help defense is just as important to a good defensive team as on the ball defense. Great defenses do both. However, in this case does Shaq not have the right to stand his ground and he should move out of the way because he is inside the arc?

[shockmonster]

In the eyes of the ref, did SM foul in jdshock's gif by that almost imperceptible movement into the defender at the end? Seems like a reach, but I'm not qualified to go all "that is all", so whatever.

i don't think an imperceptible movement makes any difference. The question is whether he is vertical or if he is sliding into position.

[RoyalShock]

Shaq lost the verticality argument when his arms came forward right before contact occurred. I don't know if that was the reason for the foul call, but with the benefit of replay, he did foul.

[jdshock]

Shaq lost the verticality argument when his arms came forward right before contact occurred. I don't know if that was the reason for the foul call, but with the benefit of replay, he did foul.

I slowed it down all the way, and it looks to me like his arms don't budge until the guy barrels into him. I do think that might be what got the foul called, though.

[shockmonster]

Shaq lost the verticality argument when his arms came forward right before contact occurred. I don't know if that was the reason for the foul call, but with the benefit of replay, he did foul.

you are probably right technically but it was so inadvertent, I don't see how that would have been called. If Shaq would have fallen backward, trying to DRAW a charge, the referee would have probably called nothing. As it was, the ref was drawn into calling something so Shaq received the call. Sometimes, his considerable girth and strength goes against him.

[ShockTalk]

If you didn't notice, @jdshock:'s video can be played frame by frame, forward and backward. Hit pause and use the arrows on both sides.

From what I see, Shaq's feet were planted before Forte jumped on his last step. Shaq is straight up with arms straight up, before, during, and after contact except he goes straight up on his toes. He has developed this "ShaqWall" because any movement, even legal, he'll usually get a foul called.

[ShockTalk]

I'll also add that Shamet was between the ref and Forte and I'm not sure the ref could even see the play clearly. Neither of the other two refs, who were watching the play, even flinched.

[Shocker-maniac]

Shaq lost the verticality argument when his arms came forward right before contact occurred. I don't know if that was the reason for the foul call, but with the benefit of replay, he did foul.

I don't know about that, the way I see it he's perfectly vertical. I've watched it over and over again,and have even gone frame by frame as described by @ShockTalk:.

[AZ Shocker]

Appreciate the video clip jdshock. On second and third and forth look it sure looks to me like ShaQ had great defensive position (my opinion Jamar President). btw...sorry for offending you.

However I obviously misquoted myself in last night post saying it should have been a charge call. After viewing the clip multiple times...in my opinion (and again I apologize Jamar President for my opinion)...it should've been a no-call. Seen that happen many times in other non-Shocker games where the ref simply determines a no-call. Looks to me the Shockers bench and Coach Marshall felt the same way judging by their reactions. But again just my opinion.

[ShockdaWorld]

Over and over, frame by frame, and no movement out of Shaq. Arms stayed straight up even after Forte jumped into him and bounced off. Not the reason we lost by a long shot, but certainly a bad call.

Unless of course I am misinterpreting the rule and Shaq is NOT legally allowed to stand straight up with his hands extended straight over his head inside the arc. And if that's the case, he may as well lean into the little turds that come flying into him. May as well make them think twice about the next one if you're going to get a call anyway.