WSU vs Michigan State

[1972Shocker]

I have mixed feelings about this weekend. On the one hand we showed some grit and determination in battling back both against Louisville and Michigan State. OTOH, we proved we were good enough to beat these teams with a consistent effort of good basketball with the right players on the floor. Because of that I am very disappointed that the Shocks were unable to take advantage of a golden opportunity to build their NCAA resume.

Hopefully, the Shocks bounce back and take care of business in better fashion going forward. Obviously there is some work to do and some changes to make.

[William]

Conner is playing out of position, not saying he can't backup 1, but him at the 2 could yield much different results, I don't recall him playing point up north.

[Remember'70]

Certainly disappointed with the outcome from yesterday and was really bummed when I saw Austin go down with the shoulder injury.

I've seen a lot of folks mention that he needs to bulk up and I don't disagree. However, with chronic shoulder injuries, as it appears he suffers from, the bulk won't matter. Once you pop it out, the likelihood that it will happen again increases significantly. The bone can be chipped away every time it pops out, creating a pocket that makes it really easy to slip out over and over. The ligaments are also usually stretched so much that nothing can be done until a surgeon can repair them.

Hoping he can play through it this year, but I am guessing he'll need to have it fixed after the season.

[Dan]

I thought Austin has already had surgeries on both shoulders. Not sure another surgery is going to do much unless he tears something.

[im4wsu]

We've certainly been spoined by Ron and Fred, but seeing CF "defend" from 6-7 feet away from the PG doesn't warm my cockels and it certainly makes it a ton easier for the opposing offense to do what it wants.

[OregonShocker]

Playing doctor. Will a pin take care of it?

No, not unless there's a bone fracture. Your shoulder isn't truly a "ball in socket" joint; rather, it is held in place by a cartilage lip (labrium) and muscle tendons and ligaments. If on of those structures is torn, surgery will help, but may not be totally necessary. If not torn, rest and muscle strengthening will suffice, and hopefully enough strength to keep it from dislocating again. But once injured, it is more likely to reoccur given the right circumstances.

[Remember'70]

I've had the open bankart repair twice on the same shoulder for this condition. If he had the same type of surgery for the labrum and the sutures/anchors didn't hold, then I would be surprised if he didn't explore surgery again.

[Keyser Soze]

We've certainly been spoined by Ron and Fred, but seeing CF "defend" from 6-7 feet away from the PG doesn't warm my cockels and it certainly makes it a ton easier for the opposing offense to do what it wants.

I'm guessing you haven't watched many MSU games over the last few years. The first point on every scouting report for them is to treat Tum Tum like he's Doug Gottlieb or Craig Steven and do the best you can to screw up their spacing. He is an atrocious shooter and really struggles to even be very effective off the dribble in the half court. Izzo is praying for someone to demonstrate some point skills so that he can reduce his minutes by January like he did last year.

The cover on Nairn was about the only evidence I saw that anyone read the scouting report for that game. We were helping off of the wrong guys to the wrong guys all game.

[proshox]

I'm guessing you haven't watched many MSU games over the last few years. The first point on every scouting report for them is to treat Tum Tum like he's Doug Gottlieb or Craig Steven and do the best you can to screw up their spacing. He is an atrocious shooter and really struggles to even be very effective off the dribble in the half court. Izzo is praying for someone to demonstrate some point skills so that he can reduce his minutes by January like he did last year.

The cover on Nairn was about the only evidence I saw that anyone read the scouting report for that game. We were helping off of the wrong guys to the wrong guys all game.

Mic drop

[Aargh]

I'm guessing you haven't watched many MSU games over the last few years. The first point on every scouting report for them is to treat Tum Tum like he's Doug Gottlieb or Craig Steven and do the best you can to screw up their spacing. He is an atrocious shooter and really struggles to even be very effective off the dribble in the half court. Izzo is praying for someone to demonstrate some point skills so that he can reduce his minutes by January like he did last year.

The cover on Nairn was about the only evidence I saw that anyone read the scouting report for that game. We were helping off of the wrong guys to the wrong guys all game.

Do you meant this guy - the guy who's hitting 50% from 3 this year and 50% from inside the arc?

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3147690/lourawls-nairn-jr

[pogo]

I'm sure he meant the other TumTum :)

[Ricardo del Rio]

according to my eye test, there is no pg controversy.

d

[Aargh]

There are a lot of different ways to play PG and there are a lot of different fan preferences.

Melo Trimble seems to be a "shoot first" PG, who is more likely to score than to set up others to score. If that's an effective way to boost team scoring efficiency, then that's a "good" PG.

FVV used his dribble to find ways to get defenders out of position or find passing lanes. Some WSU fans were critical of that because "he just dribbled back and forth at the top of the key". PG's who use this technique tend to get to the basket fairly regularly and either shoot or dish.

Frankamp is the protoype pass first PG. Make a safe pass and move into position to receive an outlet pass if the play breaks down. Then make another safe pass to start another play.

That's 3 different styles and there are fans of all three styles, so it seems there will always be some controversy.

It seems to me that if there are 4 scoring threats on the floor (other than the PG), then a "pass first" approach is great. That's one reason VanVleet and Wessel paired nicely. With little scoring threat from the PF position, VanVleet's ability to score from 3 or at the hoop compensated for less production from another position.

As long as Kelly and Bush are scoring, a "pass first" approach is great. That worked really well in the first 5 games, but when those guys ran into defenses that shut them down, then the "pass first" approach broke down. We needed either a "drive and dish" or a "shoot first" PG against UL and MSU. Either that or guys in other positions who didn't get rushed and sped up to the point of inability to perform.

[proshox]

There are a lot of different ways to play PG and there are a lot of different fan preferences.

Melo Trimble seems to be a "shoot first" PG, who is more likely to score than to set up others to score. If that's an effective way to boost team scoring efficiency, then that's a "good" PG.

FVV used his dribble to find ways to get defenders out of position or find passing lanes. Some WSU fans were critical of that because "he just dribbled back and forth at the top of the key". PG's who use this technique tend to get to the basket fairly regularly and either shoot or dish.

Frankamp is the protoype pass first PG. Make a safe pass and move into position to receive an outlet pass if the play breaks down. Then make another safe pass to start another play.

That's 3 different styles and there are fans of all three styles, so it seems there will always be some controversy.

It seems to me that if there are 4 scoring threats on the floor (other than the PG), then a "pass first" approach is great. That's one reason VanVleet and Wessel paired nicely. With little scoring threat from the PF position, VanVleet's ability to score from 3 or at the hoop compensated for less production from another position.

As long as Kelly and Bush are scoring, a "pass first" approach is great. That worked really well in the first 5 games, but when those guys ran into defenses that shut them down, then the "pass first" approach broke down. We needed either a "drive and dish" or a "shoot first" PG against UL and MSU. Either that or guys in other positions who didn't get rushed and sped up to the point of inability to perform.

Good analysis.

[kcshocker11]

kc, has ur acct been hacked?

lol no