Shox vs. Carleton

[choida]

Funny how some go from crowning this team to the opposite spectrum... This team is a work in progress... Going up take time... Experienced teams will expose us... But we will always be competitive... This Canada thing is all an experiment for Gregg to try different lineups and see what his new players look like with real game time players

[Steeleshocker]

I wouldn't be too upset. Carleton is a very good team and likely better than the Shockers. They regular beat D1 mid majors. It is their pre- season too.

Last year they beat Baylor and Valpo. The year before they beat Memphis by 32 and 12. They beat Wisonsin by 12 the year they nearly went undefeated. They took Syracuse and Lousiville to OT and lost.

Here is a nice article about the Wisconsin experience at Carelton and how it kick started their big season. http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...-season-better You can either think your guys played poorly or accept Carleton is possibly better and learn from it.

Good luck in the season. Canadians can ball!

Absolutely, Canadians can ball. And they played well enough to win this game under these circumstances. But they are absolutely not automatically the better team.

If Marshall wants to win this game he does, probably by 15+ points. He does no scouting (which Carleton did), let's guys struggle through problems without calling timeouts, keeps one of his likely starters (and stars) on the bench as a precaution to avoid making an injury worse, and puts some crazy lineups out there to see how it works.

This game was important to both teams for different reasons. Carleton wants the win to demonstrate and validate their ability in comparison to a top American squad. Wichita State wants to use it for the extra practice time with a bunch of new players in prominent roles and to get game experience and lots of guys time to see what they can do.

Sure, it may also be preseason for Carleton, but they have no limitations on practice time in the summer.

[Dan]

I wouldn't be too upset. Carleton is a very good team and likely better than the Shockers. They regular beat D1 mid majors. It is their pre- season too.

Last year they beat Baylor and Valpo. The year before they beat Memphis by 32 and 12. They beat Wisonsin by 12 the year they nearly went undefeated. They took Syracuse and Lousiville to OT and lost.

Here is a nice article about the Wisconsin experience at Carelton and how it kick started their big season. http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...-season-better You can either think your guys played poorly or accept Carleton is possibly better and learn from it.

Good luck in the season. Canadians can ball!

It's preseason for both teams, although I assure you that this game is no indication of what real Shocker basketball is all about. Our coach did zero scouting and he is a master scout and game planner in real games. We played a bunch of guys and combinations that won't see the floor during the real season. This was a great eye opener for a lot of our players and our coaches that will pay dividends, but don't think the score is any indication of which team is really better.

[Onedarwinian]

Absolutely, Canadians can ball. And they played well enough to win this game under these circumstances. But they are absolutely not automatically the better team.

If Marshall wants to win this game he does, probably by 15+ points. He does no scouting (which Carleton did), let's guys struggle through problems without calling timeouts, keeps one of his likely starters (and stars) on the bench as a precaution to avoid making an injury worse, and puts some crazy lineups out there to see how it works.

This game was important to both teams for different reasons. Carleton wants the win to demonstrate and validate their ability in comparison to a top American squad. Wichita State wants to use it for the extra practice time with a bunch of new players in prominent roles and to get game experience and lots of guys time to see what they can do.

Sure, it may also be preseason for Carleton, but they have no limitations on practice time in the summer.

Almost exactly what I read from the Memphis faithful after they lost by 10 a couple years ago. Said they'd take it seriously next time. Four days later Carleton did take it seriously and beat them by 32. BTW, I said they are likely better - they won - 25 is a lot.

On a positive note, I watched Fred VanVleet in summer league with the Raptors and he looked great. Glad to see he signed with Raptors. He will make an impact if he gets PT.

[another shocker]

good competition.

they needecd that.

[ShockerFever]

I wouldn't be too upset. Carleton is a very good team and likely better than the Shockers. They regular beat D1 mid majors. It is their pre- season too.

Last year they beat Baylor and Valpo. The year before they beat Memphis by 32 and 12. They beat Wisonsin by 12 the year they nearly went undefeated. They took Syracuse and Lousiville to OT and lost.

Here is a nice article about the Wisconsin experience at Carelton and how it kick started their big season. http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...-season-better You can either think your guys played poorly or accept Carleton is possibly better and learn from it.

Good luck in the season. Canadians can ball!

Uh, no one was saying this team was bad. In fact, everything that was stated said the complete opposite.

Your team has a bunch of advantages built into these games automatically from the start. The mindset of your team is different than the mindset of ours going in. Given your list of statistics, do you really believe your team was better than Baylor last year? or Wisconsin the year you beat them? This game absolutely proves nothing in terms of which team is better than the other. And there's a multitude of reasons why. I can start with starter minutes of both teams and then player lineups of both teams.

We know Canadians can ball. We've had a few of them play for us in recent years that were solid. Chadrack Lufile and Nick Wiggins just to name a couple.

If the two teams played in November, WSU would win by double-digits. Easily. Nothing snooty about it either. Just the way it is.

[Onedarwinian]

I wouldn't claim they were better than Wisconsin - though interestingly they played starters as much as Carleton. Maybe better than Baylor. Better than the stream of mid D1s who visit. Not sure they're better than WS - but if not it is darn close. I couldn't say double digits either way. Carleton has won 12 of the past 14 national championships - their coach is a legend - he would certainly be prepared.

I am glad they came to play them. Thanks!

[Windiwu]

Some people sitting behind me were wishing they could see the two teams play in January when they would both be at their best. Today was disappointing but I think the lesson will have a lot of value. The Carleton fans are probably the most polite I've met. Their coach matches ours for intensity. They were ahead by 25points when a player lost the ball out of bounds. Coach Smart.almost had a coronary along the sideline. The guy sitting next to me seems to think Shaq should be playing football.

[im4wsu]

The biggest deficit to me is the lack of on-ball defense at the guard... Well, every position. How many times were there where there were four Shockers in the lane and their ball handler drove into the fur and either was fouled or dished to the corner for the three. Carleton had four guys moving near the ball, and the Shockers had four guys standing and waiting to see what happened

[Dave Stalwart]

How many times "were there where there were" four Shockers...

That one took me a second. Nothing wrong with it...but I had to read it a couple times. :)

[proshox]

HCGM's offense is not built for a 24 second shot clock. The Valley especially doesn't play quick.

By design our sets don't start until 10-12 seconds into a possession. I thought we made too few adjustments for the shorter clock last year so six less seconds made it apparent to everyone.

Combine the slow tempo with no stops on defense and we got into that half court quagmire that happened all too often last year. Hopefully we will adjust, but out offense last year relied solely on defense/transition so I am not sure what to expect.

[ShockRef]

Overall..

Too many facets on the defensive end to rail about but the two main that stuck out were dribble drive and off ball help.
Shaq especially did some really dumb ****, in the limited minutes he was out there stumbling around.

This element has got to improve because everybody runs the high ball screen and drive with kick to the wings when the drive the is pinched. If they can't effectively defense these basic parts of most offenses, its a big problem.

Fortunately, there are some pretty smart guys on the coaching staff and I'm very confident corrective measures will be implemented.
Translated; these coaches know their **** and will have everyone's ass in gear come November.

That is all.

[Dave Stalwart]

Too many facets on the defensive end to rail about but the two main that stuck out were dribble drive and off ball help.
Shaq especially did some really dumb ****, in the limited minutes he was out there stumbling around.

This element has got to improve because everybody runs the high ball screen and drive with kick to the wings when the drive the is pinched. If they can't effectively defense these basic parts of most offenses, its a big problem.

Fortunately, there are some pretty smart guys on the coaching staff and I'm very confident corrective measures will be implemented.
Translated; these coaches know their **** and will have everyone's ass in gear come November.

That is all.

Hopefully, being terrible at it in August directly translates into being great at it in November as a result. I've never seen Marshall fail to deliver before, and I don't think that will start now. It's not like this team is "dumber" than other teams. He says he loves teaching...just give him athletes. Well, we have the athletes, and we have 3 months now to let the best coach in college basketball do the teaching that comes naturally to him.

[Aargh]

There was no evidence of the Shox having a PG on the court today. Maybe that's not on Smith and Frankamp.

I didn't see anythign resembling getting the team into an offensive flow. The post players kept tossing up 3's because the guards kept passing them the ball on the perimeter with 5 seconds left on the shot clock.

With a 24-second shot clock, Frankamp needs to put up a shot any time he's got some shooting room and there's less than 10 seconds on the shot clock.

Another thing I didn't see was a PG trying to break down the D. All I saw was some dribbling and then passing to a wing on the perimeter. It's hard to get assists when shots aren't falling. It's hard for shots to fall when the player getting the ball isn't in a position to shoot or attack the basket, and that's where players were when they got a pass from a guard.

[Aargh]

HCGM's offense is not built for a 24 second shot clock. The Valley especially doesn't play quick.

By design our sets don't start until 10-12 seconds into a possession. I thought we made too few adjustments for the shorter clock last year so six less seconds made it apparent to everyone.

Combine the slow tempo with no stops on defense and we got into that half court quagmire that happened all too often last year. Hopefully we will adjust, but out offense last year relied solely on defense/transition so I am not sure what to expect.

This!

Shox were always late getting sets going (too long to get past half court and into the sets). Then they seemed to be one or two passes away from what they were trying to do when the shot clock ran down.