NCAA Tournament Scores and Discussion Thread

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Right, I still think you need to analyze the 65 losses and top-100 wins to see if they are apples to apples.

Before I take the time to analyze it, what are you expecting to see? We already established that both conferences play a majority of games at home, so that is equal. We know both conferences played *some* difficult non con games, especially since nearly everyone participated in except tourneys on neutral sites. We also know that both conferences played relatively similar non con SOSs, making it all the more likely that the overall balance of good and bad opponents was likely similar. Finally, we know that both conferences had very similar non con winning %s.

If we find that the ACC did better against "good" teams, than for them to have been ranked slightly below the Big 12 overall, they would have had to do much worse against mediocre or bad teams. I guess I could look to see if that was the case (I doubt there is any significant difference between Big 12 and ACC in that regard), but even if it was true, what would that prove? More quality wins, but also more bad losses?

[Mike]

Creighton fans celebrating in ernest, clamoring to buy Villanova National Championship t-shirts. One poster is wearing his BIG EAST t-shirt to work tomorrow lol. I kid you not. It's like they won the National Title themselves over there.

I just love it. This now vindicates their conference and proves it's a power conference.

No. It proves Villanova is a high major program and can win championships, as they were in the real Big East. I mean it's just as goofy as saying when Butler reached back-to-back title games that the Horizon League is a conference capable of making championship games and it vindicates the conference.

You seriously can't make this **** up. Only Creighton fans... lol.

In the three years of its existence, the Big East (new) has established itself as something other than a mid-major basketball conference. They have averaged 5 teams/year in the NCAA tournament, the league has had 6 top 4 seeds in the tournament, 8 of the 10 league teams have been in the NCAA tournament, and now they have a National Champion. Early predictions have Villanova, Xavier, and Seton Hall as top 20 teams for the 2016-17 season. Power conference? Not sure. Mid-major conference? Definitely not. The Horizon League has never had a conference resume like that of the Big East (new). In 2010 and 2011, when Butler reached the NCAA finals, it was a large fish in a very small pond; not unlike WSU today. Creighton made a good decision when the opportunity to leave the MVC arose. Being envious of that opportunity and of their Big East membership is understandable.




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[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Creighton made a good decision when the opportunity to leave the MVC arose. Being envious of that opportunity and of their Big East membership is understandable.

WSU fans can simultaneously:

1) Wish WSU was in the Big East rather than the MVC
2) Laugh at Creighton fans who celebrate "rising to 37 in the final KenPom ranks" and treat Villanova's victory as some huge accomplishment by CU itself.

There was a good rivalry that was damaged by Creighton leaving. It just makes sense that Shocker fans will enjoy mocking Creighton for its "accomplishments" while WSU is the one actually accomplishing things. Creighton has "opportunity". WSU has results. The desire to get out of the MVC does not mean that a single Shocker fan is envious of Creighton's program, nor that they would want to trade places.

[ShockerFever]

In the three years of its existence, the Big East (new) has established itself as something other than a mid-major basketball conference. They have averaged 5 teams/year in the NCAA tournament, the league has had 6 top 4 seeds in the tournament, 8 of the 10 league teams have been in the NCAA tournament, and now they have a National Champion. Early predictions have Villanova, Xavier, and Seton Hall as top 20 teams for the 2016-17 season. Power conference? Not sure. Mid-major conference? Definitely not. The Horizon League has never had a conference resume like that of the Big East (new). In 2010 and 2011, when Butler reached the NCAA finals, it was a large fish in a very small pond; not unlike WSU today. Creighton made a good decision when the opportunity to leave the MVC arose. Being envious of that opportunity and of their Big East membership is understandable.

The Big East is not and will not EVER be considered a major conference. Nova, Georgetown and to some degree Xavier carry the weight of that conference. Everybody else are coat tail riders. Creighton is the smallest fish in the cutesy medium-sized pond. It's like Rutger fans claiming that they're big time because they're in the Big Ten.

Envious? lol.

Thanks Creighton fan for your concern about the happenings at a WSU message board and taking the time to try and vindicate yourself.

[ShockdaWorld]

In the three years of its existence, the Big East (new) has established itself as something other than a mid-major basketball conference. They have averaged 5 teams/year in the NCAA tournament, the league has had 6 top 4 seeds in the tournament, 8 of the 10 league teams have been in the NCAA tournament, and now they have a National Champion. Early predictions have Villanova, Xavier, and Seton Hall as top 20 teams for the 2016-17 season. Power conference? Not sure. Mid-major conference? Definitely not. The Horizon League has never had a conference resume like that of the Big East (new). In 2010 and 2011, when Butler reached the NCAA finals, it was a large fish in a very small pond; not unlike WSU today. Creighton made a good decision when the opportunity to leave the MVC arose. Being envious of that opportunity and of their Big East membership is understandable.

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Envious of their conference, yes. Envious of them, not so much. The only thing switching conferences has done for them is move them from where they would've been without McDermott in the MVC (the bottom) to where they are in the BE without him (the bottom).

Run along now little Dougie

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

How to feed a troll...

Thanks Creighton fan for your concern about the happenings at a WSU message board and taking the time to try and vindicate yourself.

How to beat a troll...

Creighton has "opportunity". WSU has results.

[Stickboy46]

How to feed a troll...


How to beat a troll...

What if he was wanting to plumpen the troll up a little before beating him?

[ShockerFever]

How to feed a troll...


How to beat a troll...

People who stroke themselves while quoting themselves are an insult to the word "egotistical".

[molly jabali]

....and the earth returns to its' normal orbit.....

[Shox21]

Unfortunately.

[proshox]

Being in the Big East would be more fun on a nightly basis. It would do next to nothing to help WSU's perception, brand, and tournament seeding.

As CU has shown it can hurt all of the above if you fail to take care of business.

[ShockdaWorld]

Being in the Big East would be more fun on a nightly basis. It would do next to nothing to help WSU's perception, brand, and tournament seeding.

As CU has shown it can hurt all of the above if you fail to take care of business.

As opposed to not taking care of business in the MVC? I prefer to think we continue to take care of business, and then yes, it DOES elevate perception, brand, and seeding. Wins against Seton Hall, Xavier, Georgetown and losses against Nova (and even CU for that matter) looks a whole hell of a lot better than wins against Evansville, SIU, MoSt and losses against UNI and ISUr.

[ShockingButTrue]

Envious of their conference, yes. Envious of them, not so much. The only thing switching conferences has done for them is move them from where they would've been without McDermott in the MVC (the bottom) to where they are in the BE without him (the bottom).

Run along now little Dougie

The Ramblers whole heartedly endorse this statement.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Well @Kung Wu, I was feeling generous. Here is your requested analysis.

Non-Con results using KenPom's A & B system
A = Top 50 after adjusting for home/neutral/away
B = 51-100 after adjusting for home/neutral/away
Other = 101+ after adjusting for home/neutral/away

KenPom does what we all wish the RPI would do and considers a road win at #55 as a group A (top 50) win, and home loss to #45 as a group B (51-100) loss. For example, UNI was ranked #66 by KenPom. WSU's road win @UNI bumped up to group A, the neutral loss remained constant at group B, and the home loss fell down into group "other".

ACC

Team	vs A	vs B	Other
UNC	0-2	5-0	6-0
UVA	3-1	2-0	6-0
Miami	3-0	2-0	6-1
Duke	2-2	2-0	7-0
ND	1-1	1-2	7-0
Syr	2-1	0-1	8-1
Pitt	0-1	0-0	11-0
Total	11-8	12-3	51-2

Big 12

Team	vs A	vs B	Other
KU	3-1	2-0	7-0
OU	4-0	2-0	6-0
WVU	2-2	0-0	9-0
ISU	1-1	3-1	7-0
Baylor	0-2	2-0	9-0
Texas	1-1	3-3	5-0
T Tech	0-2	1-0	9-0
Total	11-9	13-4	52-0

The numbers are extremely similar. I see nothing in these non con results to explain why the ACC was so much better in March than the Big 12.

[shockmonster]

Jamar is a relentless computer data sleuth deluxe. I say Well Done. If anyone can get you away from your data and computer, you probably a barrel of laughs. You have a very important niche in life. I'm sorry I cannot relate. lol