Official: Wichita State vs Seton Hall Game Thread

[William]

I was wrong. This is the dumbest thing I will read all day.

Lol, the third option of dish is kinda important.

[shock]

Lol, the third option of dish is kinda important.

Going to the line is just as good as a missed three.

[WillieJeffJeffries]

Going to the line is just as good as a missed three.

LOL..Real smart. let me know when we start getting to the line..

[MoValley John]

Take a look at what I'm wearing, people. You think anybody wants a roundhouse kick to the face while I'm wearing these bad boys? Forget about it. Last off, my students will learn about self respect. You think anybody thinks I'm a failure because I go home to Starla at night? Forget about it!

[shock]

Take a look at what I'm wearing, people. You think anybody wants a roundhouse kick to the face while I'm wearing these bad boys? Forget about it. Last off, my students will learn about self respect. You think anybody thinks I'm a failure because I go home to Starla at night? Fugeta 'bout it!

FTFY

I wonder if Ron would warm up in a pair of these if we got them for him...

[CBB_Fan]

The big problem is our RPI. Look at it. It is terrible by any stretch of the imagination.

First, our overall RPI is 71. That is "miss the tournament" RPI, unless we capitalize on our opportunities. Second, our record against good to great teams is awful. We are 1-4 against the Top 50. 2-5 against the top 100. Looking at that, we aren't just a 70 RPI team, we are a 70 RPI team that had the opportunity to beat good squads and failed on almost every occasion. We have two wins, but both came at home. Even if you only look at the games with Fred, we are 2-2 against top 100 competition. We couldn't beat a top 70 or top 50 team away from Koch Arena, with Fred.

Will our RPI rise as the season goes on? Maybe. The real season is basically over. We failed. We no longer have an opportunity to correct our terrible top 50 record, since we will not play a top 50 RPI team. If we are lucky, we get 3 top 100 games the rest of the season. There isn't another good or even okay loss on our schedule. There is no way we can correct the narrative now that we've struggled against tournament level competition, but we need to at least deal with the creampuffs and dominate the MVC. If we lose 2 more games, I don't think we dance without winning the tournament. Projected RPI of 41, with only one shot at a top 50 win? Not good enough. Going undefeated puts us at 27, one loss puts us at 32. Projected RPI expects a final record of 19-10, with an 81.5 RPI and a final SOS of 105 (currently 10). Thanks MVC. Obviously we would not even be close to an at-large with a 13-5 record in the MVC, probably a 12 or 13 seed.

I do not trust us to win the MVC tournament, and if we miss the NCAA this year it will go down as the most disappointing season in all of Shocker history and a completely disgraceful end to the career's of Ron Baker and Fred Van Vleet. This had the potential to be the best Shocker team of all time, and now we need a miraculous recovery just to get an at-large bid. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not going to start criticized the team's play or mental fortitude, but we clearly have a lot of work to do to be a quality team.

[shock]

The big problem is our RPI. Look at it. It is terrible by any stretch of the imagination.

First, our overall RPI is 71. That is "miss the tournament" RPI, unless we capitalize on our opportunities. Second, our record against good to great teams is awful. We are 1-4 against the Top 50. 2-5 against the top 100. Looking at that, we aren't just a 70 RPI team, we are a 70 RPI team that had the opportunity to beat good squads and failed on almost every occasion. We have two wins, but both came at home. Even if you only look at the games with Fred, we are 2-2 against top 100 competition. We couldn't beat a top 70 or top 50 team away from Koch Arena, with Fred.

Will our RPI rise as the season goes on? Maybe. The real season is basically over. We failed. We no longer have an opportunity to correct our terrible top 50 record, since we will not play a top 50 RPI team. If we are lucky, we get 3 top 100 games the rest of the season. There isn't another good or even okay loss on our schedule. There is no way we can correct the narrative now that we've struggled against tournament level competition, but we need to at least deal with the creampuffs and dominate the MVC. If we lose 2 more games, I don't think we dance without winning the tournament. Projected RPI of 41, with only one shot at a top 50 win? Not good enough. Going undefeated puts us at 27, one loss puts us at 32. Projected RPI expects a final record of 19-10, with an 81.5 RPI and a final SOS of 105 (currently 10). Thanks MVC. Obviously we would not even be close to an at-large with a 13-5 record in the MVC, probably a 12 or 13 seed.

I do not trust us to win the MVC tournament, and if we miss the NCAA this year it will go down as the most disappointing season in all of Shocker history and a completely disgraceful end to the career's of Ron Baker and Fred Van Vleet. This had the potential to be the best Shocker team of all time, and now we need a miraculous recovery just to get an at-large bid. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not going to start criticized the team's play or mental fortitude, but we clearly have a lot of work to do to be a quality team.

Our RPI is miss the tournament bad if we had FVV healthy for all the games we lost. The committee will throw those losses without Fred out the window. We validated ourselves with our win over Utah, and their subsequent win over Duke. We lost to the best team we will face all regular season yesterday. SHU is good, or was for 25 minutes yesterday. Reffing aside, that was the best I have felt about a loss since UK.

We are still sitting good for the tournament, although we are likely a 10-12 seed.

[pinstripers]

If we have 6 losses, we are in. If we have 8 losses, we are out.

[shock]

Look at it.

[shockerfanmas]

Agreed, the officials didn't make RB and FVV to turn the ball over 10 plus times. The Shox squandered a first half 13 point lead, and then squandered a late 62 - 55 lead. Each of them needs to have a nice, long introspection session so they can wake the freak up and start playing like we know they are capable of.

Let's identify the up hill battle the Shox need to overcome now. A 1-5 record against the RPI top 50. Belonging to the 13th rated conference in the nation, (the FREAKIN' Summit League is three spots ahead of us for Pete's sake!). No inside game/presence whatsoever. IF they win 20 in a row, they finish 25-5 and have an at-large bid locked up. A 24-6 record should do the job too. 23-7 it's 50/50 but 22-8, 21-9 or 20-10 and it's going to take a championship in St. Louis to get the bid. Anyone think we go undefeated or lose just one game the rest of the way? Didn't think so.

You can definitely blame a handful of those turnovers on the officials though. How many horrible offensive fouls did we have? 5 I think? While I don't agree with the silly notion that the officials cost us the game, I will say it was majorly influenced. That being said, the Shox played pretty bad ball in the second half. At some point you've got to be disciplined and adjust to how the game is being called. This team hasn't figured out how to do that yet.

I'm not ready to rule this team out as an NCAA team, but there is A LOT of work yet to do. Other than UNI, the valley looks weak, and that likely won't help our chances. Unless this team completely collapses, we'll be in the dance. A couple wins over UNI would be huge though

[fansince80s]

If we have 6 losses, we are in. If we have 8 losses, we are out.

First Four ? We have seen all areas NIT championship Final 4 so why not?

[shockerfanmas]

3 separate cat fights in one thread! This is fun.

And I'm not involved in any of them. You're right, it is fun!

[CBB_Fan]

Our RPI is miss the tournament bad if we had FVV healthy for all the games we lost. The committee will throw those losses without Fred out the window. We validated ourselves with our win over Utah, and their subsequent win over Duke. We lost to the best team we will face all regular season yesterday. SHU is good, or was for 25 minutes yesterday. Reffing aside, that was the best I have felt about a loss since UK.

We are still sitting good for the tournament, although we are likely a 10-12 seed.

Throw out the games without Fred and we still are looking at a 50 RPI and a 2-2 record against decent competition with the usual unavoidable MVC SOS. Home wins count less than road ones, and we don't and will not have a quality road win. Neither Seton Hall nor Tulsa were even good teams. Seton Hall has played nobody but us and projects to finish at 70 RPI and miss the tournament. Tulsa is projected around 90. Both around the 50-60 range in KenPom. I wouldn't be surprised if neither makes the tournament.

Even if we make the tournament with a 10-12 seed, this regular season was wasted. We started ranked #9. We aren't even confidant of finishing with a top 9 seed. We started with two pre-Season All-Americans, maybe even PoY candidates. It is a 100% guarantee neither Ron nor Fred makes an All-American list. 100%. You don't national recognition for finishing 21-8 in the MVC. Or even 24-5. We started with national championship aspirations. Now we have NCAA tournament aspirations. We started with this sort of confidence. Now its: "I think we might still be a 10 seed!"

I'm done ranting. This just gets me irrationally angry at fate and the juxtaposition of our expectations and the incredibly disappointing reality. Maybe we redeem ourselves like in 2013 and this all gets forgotten, but right now the season feels more like 2010-2011. If we miss the tournament this season ... I might just have to leave the forum for a year or so just to keep the blood pressure at a healthy level.

[shockerfanmas]

First Four ? We have seen all areas NIT championship Final 4 so why not?

Knowing how the committee likes to screw us, I wouldn't be surprised if we were sent to Dayton for the First Four and our opponent was..... Dayton!

[shockerfanmas]

Throw out the games without Fred and we still are looking at a 50 RPI and a 2-2 record against decent competition with the usual unavoidable MVC SOS. Home wins count less than road ones, and we don't and will not have a quality road win. Neither Seton Hall nor Tulsa were even good teams. Seton Hall has played nobody but us and projects to finish at 70 RPI and miss the tournament. Tulsa is projected around 90. Both around the 50-60 range in KenPom. I wouldn't be surprised if neither makes the tournament.

Even if we make the tournament with a 10-12 seed, this regular season was wasted. We started ranked #9. We aren't even confidant of finishing with a top 9 seed. We started with two pre-Season All-Americans, maybe even PoY candidates. It is a 100% guarantee neither Ron nor Fred makes an All-American list. 100%. You don't national recognition for finishing 21-8 in the MVC. Or even 24-5. We started with national championship aspirations. Now we have NCAA tournament aspirations. We started with this sort of confidence. Now its: "I think we might still be a 10 seed!"

I'm done ranting. This just gets me irrationally angry at fate and the juxtaposition of our expectations and the incredibly disappointing reality. Maybe we redeem ourselves like in 2013 and this all gets forgotten, but right now the season feels more like 2010-2011. If we miss the tournament this season ... I might just have to leave the forum for a year or so just to keep the blood pressure at a healthy level.

I would think winning at UNI would be a quality road win, especially if they keep playing the way they are playing