AP and Coaches Poll Watch Thread (2015-16 Edition)

[ShockerPrez]

We are talented enough to be a top 25 team without Fred,IMO.

Fred makes us an elite team. we are still capable of winning 3 in Orlando.

[OregonShocker]

If you're #15 and you knock off #2, you have #2's "easy" path. If you want to go to the FF, you have to beat #2 anyway. I just don't get all the seeding frenzy. By the time you get past the first weekend, you're playing either a) a really good team throughout the year and/or b) a team that's finally found themselves and is hot. Your number at that point seems moot.

[OregonShocker]

I do hate math, and I get what you're saying, but if you want to win it all you have to go through really good teams of all seeding. I don't care if we're a 12 seed this year or a 2. That's just me though.

I agree. All I really care about is getting a seed, any seed. And that's where ranking, for us vs the blue bloods, seems to matter.

[Cdizzle]

If you're #15 and you knock off #2, you have #2's "easy" path. If you want to go to the FF, you have to beat #2 anyway. I just don't get all the seeding frenzy. By the time you get past the first weekend, you're playing either a) a really good team throughout the year and/or b) a team that's finally found themselves and is hot. Your number at that point seems moot.

What if you're #7 and #15 beats #2 before you have to play them?

I get that by the later rounds you are either playing a crazy-good team, or a crazy-hot team, or both. But removing a round or two, or at least significantly increasing your chances in those rounds makes your cumulative odds of reaching a F4 or championship drastically higher.

[SB Shock]

If you're #15 and you knock off #2, you have #2's "easy" path. If you want to go to the FF, you have to beat #2 anyway. I just don't get all the seeding frenzy. By the time you get past the first weekend, you're playing either a) a really good team throughout the year and/or b) a team that's finally found themselves and is hot. Your number at that point seems moot.

A perfect case in point that seeding matters - WSU vs Kentucky. It should not have happened in round 2, as Kentucky was projected by some to be #6 seed. WSU was #1 seed in name only, but got treated like a 3-seed. If WSU gets a legitimate #8 or #9 seed opponent they would have likely been in the S16.

[MadaboutWu]

Yep, because for one thing you are not just playing to win a NC. You are playing to make the S16, E8, etc. If there is a team that is going to knock you out a lot of the time it makes a world of difference if you face them in the E8 or the round of 32.

[RoyalShock]

We are talented enough to be a top 25 team without Fred,IMO.

Fred makes us an elite team. we are still capable of winning 3 in Orlando.

I would like to believe that, but I'm not sure I can. This year's team is naturally viewed through the prism of last year, in who returned, who was lost, and who is new. What I'm seeing through that prism is that Tekele gave the team an edge on both sides of the floor. The void he left has yet to be filled.

What Tekele brought that hasn't been filled:

- Lock-down defense, obviously.
- Rebounding (In our three games we're +9, -6, +6. Given the competition, it should be better than that)
- Scoring (Cotton was a serviceable 3-point shooter and we know he could take it to the rim)

With Shamet out, that role falls squarely on Zach Brown. Until he takes a step forward from last year, I don't see the Shocks as a top-10 team, even with a healthy VanVleet.

Edit: I just realized I mis-read the rebound margin vs CSU, which was +19 instead of +9. But I'm not sure that sways my opinion regarding the loss of Cotton's rebounding.

[Shock Top]

We are talented enough to be a top 25 team without Fred,IMO.

Fred makes us an elite team. we are still capable of winning 3 in Orlando.

A positive thought?! I think you're on the wrong forum!!

[ShockTalk]

Ah yes, ShockerNet is in full swing after 4 games. One loss and two injuries and we've already missed the tournament.

Let's keep this a little more balanced. The fans here weren't the first to have a melt down. That was on the team in the 2nd half against ESU. ESU is a team that has lost all 4 of their games and got beat both halves by K St for an 80-42 thrashing with K St playing 13 players, 10 with double digit minutes. After about the 17 minute mark in the 2nd half WSU was up by 30. ESU outscored WSU 36-28 the rest of the way winning the half by 3. ESU had 1 assist and 12 TOs the 1st half, 6 and 4 the 2nd for 2 fewer TOs than WSU. For the second half, ESU shot 52%, WSU 40%.

Then, on the heals of that lack luster performance, you add the loss of Shamet, most likely our 6th man, to that of AA FVV loss. Concern is very legit. The concern by some others may be more than I may have, but I can certainly understand it and not consider it ridiculous. We will know a lot more after Orlando, but a poor showing there will really put the screws down to do well the rest of the non-con. Otherwise, yes, we could find ourselves needing a MVC tourney championship. I have no idea just how really good UNI is, but they definitely have my attention now.

[Kung Wu]

I have no idea just how really good UNI is, but they definitely have my attention now.

Hear, hear.

[CBB_Fan]

We are talented enough to be a top 25 team without Fred,IMO.

Fred makes us an elite team. we are still capable of winning 3 in Orlando.

We easily have the talent; this is the most talented roster I've seen under Marshall. But Fred is the key to harnessing that roster to its full potential. We can never underestimate the importance of a leader, even less that of an All-American PG. We saw a glimpse of what he is capable of in the hobbled minutes he played at Tulsa; of all our players none has single-handedily won as many games for us as Fred. There was a reason his number was called against Kentucky. And even without his scoring, his ability to create for others is unparalleled. None of our other options can find an open shooter or a cutting big man like Fred. Without him, we not only lose one of our best scorers but also the guy on our team that makes everyone else better. With such a young roster, we need that sort of veteran experience to make use of our talent.

I'm not calling it quits on the season; I said from the start I am only concerned about March. But I think it is very likely we take a few knocks given how tough this OOC schedule could be, and as we've seen with the loss at Tulsa we still get negative respect from the media. I would not be surprised if we enter the MVC season unranked, because we've seen what even a "quality" loss can do to our ranking. Losing Fred might not stop us from getting the Final Four, but it likely means the difference between the route of a #2 or #3 seed and a #7 to #9. Yes, that drastic. We cannot count on more than 1-2 quality RPI games from the entire MVC season and we could easily lose our best chances to gain a solid win before Fred returns.

[Aargh]

A perfect case in point that seeding matters - WSU vs Kentucky. It should not have happened in round 2, as Kentucky was projected by some to be #6 seed. WSU was #1 seed in name only, but got treated like a 3-seed. If WSU gets a legitimate #8 or #9 seed opponent they would have likely been in the S16.

That loss did more to put WSU on the national radar than any of the W's that year.

That was pretty much considered the best game of the tourney, if not the best game of the year.

The whole rap on the Shox was that they hadn't beaten any team of significance, so putting the Shox up against UK's NBA lottery pocks was a way to test them against "somebody". I think the nation was stunned by how well UK played in that game and by the fact that the best game they played all year was just barely able to edge the Shox.

That game took the Shox out in an early round, but those who know basketball thought it should have been a F4 game and pretty much gave the Shox credit for playing at that level.

[Blackmag]

Yea everyone but Doug Goatlube lol

[ShockerAlum93]

Today's updated poll has Shockers out of Top 25, no big surprise but the other numbers are somewhat shocking: RPI 257 SOS 128 ... Time to Play Angry!

[ShoxRoxMySox]

Today's updated poll has Shockers out of Top 25, no big surprise but the other numbers are somewhat shocking: RPI 257 SOS 128 ... Time to Play Angry!

Nothing 20-ish straight wins can't, um, help some... That's ugly