Shockers are the 6th best offense

[Kel Varnsen]

I think the question is what exactly AdjDE is adjusted for. I have the same question.

I was about to respond with a quote from his site, but I realized it's part of the paywall portion.

You're welcome to e-mail him and ask him. http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/web...to_contact_me/

In the meantime, I'll stick with his statistics.

[Cdizzle]

Elite defenses do not get boat-raced by 30. Twice. They just don't.

As a point of comparison, WSU's defense got absolutely shredded in 2 games last year, by 2 very good offensive teams. And the combined total of those losses was STILL less than the KU loss to Kentucky and only 2 more than their loss to Temple.

I really like kenPom, but I don't think it takes a basketball wizard to observe that KU had a good defense last year, but not a great one. I think we're seeing another manifestation of the paper tiger that is B12 basketball.

[WuShock16]

Elite defenses do not get boat-raced by 30. Twice. They just don't.

This. We wouldn't have beaten Kentucky, but there was no way that a talented Gregg Marshall team would lose to them (or anybody) by 30. If that would happen, I wouldn't want to be a fly on the wall in film the next day, let alone the guys whose performance led to losing by 30.

That reminds me: "Is Villanova elite?" -3G

[Kel Varnsen]

Elite defenses do not get boat-raced by 30. Twice. They just don't.

As a point of comparison, WSU's defense got absolutely shredded in 2 games last year, by 2 very good offensive teams. And the combined total of those losses was STILL less than the KU loss to Kentucky and only 2 more than their loss to Temple.

I really like kenPom, but I don't think it takes a basketball wizard to observe that KU had a good defense last year, but not a great one. I think we're seeing another manifestation of the paper tiger that is B12 basketball.

In the Kentucky game, it's not necessarily that KU was horrid defensively (1.18 PPP, which isn't good but not as bad as I think you're making it out to be), but that UK completely shut them down offensively (~.65 PPP). Temple actually scored more PPP than UK did on them, which says more about Kentucky than anybody I think. They were a nightmare to score against.

Anyways, my main point to others is this: cherry picking one or two games out of a season where a team played 36 games is not sufficient enough to determine KU was a bad defensive team, and it's definitely not sufficient enough to determine whether a conference was good or not when 1000 games have been played over the course of a season when you combine every team in college basketball.

I don't necessarily think they were elite defensively, and I don't necessarily think we were an elite defensive team either (you can define elite how you want here I guess). But they were very good defensively (as nearly all Bill Self teams have been). So I guess we kind of agree?

[ShockerFever]

Seriously, did Jamar grab a new handle?

[ShockdaWorld]

I think I need to quit following this thread before the love affair with KU makes me throw up in my mouth.

[Kel Varnsen]

I think I need to quit following this thread before the love affair with KU makes me throw up in my mouth.

No love affair here. Just acknowledging facts.

[ShockerEngineer]

I'm shocked if anyone would have considered KU "good" at defense last year. Just from watching them last year, I'd usually only see them play defense in the form of bullying the opponent into reckless turnovers, when the rest of their game plan wasn't going their way.

Again, this is just an eye test type of opinion.. I watched several of their games, and almost every single moment of our season, and pretty well predicted the outcome of the Battle of Omaha ahead of time.

[Jhook89]

It was great to meet you Jhook. I'm always on the lookout for fellow Shocker fans in H-town. Next time, I'll buy your lunch!

Haha that's so random that you're on here. We'll have to watch a game this year

[shockmonster]

Here's some facts:

I hear lot's of people talk about how great Bill Self is. Now I'm not saying that he's a bad coach. However, every year, he recruits TOP 5 and TOP 10 players (NATIONALLY), and while he wins the Big (or little) 12, he almost always gets knocked out of the NCAA Tourney in one of the lower rounds.

One last fact, if we would have played Stanford instead of Kentucky two years ago when we were undefeated in the first round, we would have played at least a couple of more weeks.

His teams don't seem to get better as the year goes on, they get worse. Still some want to CROWN him without him earning it.

How bout those facts?

[ShockerPrez]

Here's some facts:

I hear lot's of people talk about how great Bill Self is. Now I'm not saying that he's a bad coach. However, every year, he recruits TOP 5 and TOP 10 players (NATIONALLY), and while he wins the Big (or little) 12, he almost always gets knocked out of the NCAA Tourney in one of the lower rounds.

One last fact, if we would have played Stanford instead of Kentucky two years ago when we were undefeated in the first round, we would have played at least a couple of more weeks.

His teams don't seem to get better as the year goes on, they get worse. Still some want to CROWN him without him earning it.

How bout those facts?

Bill Self just always runs into these garbage mid major teams that do nothing but chuck threes and they always get hot against the rug.

That's all.

[shockmonster]

Bill Self gets no bad press because everyone in the media loves him. While I don't know him, I'm sure he is deserving of his reputation as a great guy (except for his dodging of the Shockers which most local media rarely mention).

[Jhook89]

Here's some facts:

I hear lot's of people talk about how great Bill Self is. Now I'm not saying that he's a bad coach. However, every year, he recruits TOP 5 and TOP 10 players (NATIONALLY), and while he wins the Big (or little) 12, he almost always gets knocked out of the NCAA Tourney in one of the lower rounds.

One last fact, if we would have played Stanford instead of Kentucky two years ago when we were undefeated in the first round, we would have played at least a couple of more weeks.

His teams don't seem to get better as the year goes on, they get worse. Still some want to CROWN him without him earning it.

How bout those facts?

Lol well he's been in the National Chanpionship game 25% of the last 8 years, so obviously the guy isn't that bad of a coach.

You can not like KU or Bill Self, but arguing he's a bad coach is just silly.

[ShockerFever]

A Shocker 6th best offense thread has turned into a KU pity party.

And it's a reoccurring theme with certain individuals.


Self is a hell of a coach at Allen Fieldhouse. I'll give him that.

[Aargh]

The average score for WSU in the MVC was 70.3. That's about 8 points less than the Shox got against KU. I will stipulate that the MVC plays at a slower pace then KU, so that might be involved. It is.

WSU averaged giving up 57.4 points against MVC competition.

The difference between an average game in the MVC and the KU game is 7.7 points for WSU on offense and 7.6 points on defense. That seems to pretty much account for the difference in pace of the game. It also indicates that KU's defense (in that one game) was about the same as the AVERAGE defense in MVC play.

When you're in the NCAA tourney and you play defense at the level of the AVERAGE MVC team, you are going to get boat raced.

Watch B12 games some time. The rotation to open perimeter players is so slow it's nearly non-existent. Leave any team in the Valley as open on the perimeter as the B12 does, and the MVC team is draining 3's forever. The B12 has more emphasis on one-on-one play and pounding the ball inside. Take those 2 things away and a B12 team has a GREAT defense. When teams from the B12 play teams with more balanced offenses, their deficiency on D is shown.

KU could have a great adjusted D on pomeroy because they aren't required to have a complete defense in the league they're in.

2 words state this better than anything else I could say. Evan Wessel.