Offseason Thread: 2015 Edition

[Dan]

IF Ron and Fred both come back, add in Wessel and 3 solid sophomores in Brown, Morris and Kelly. That's a good foundation. We need one of those 3 sophomores to make a big jump. We need at least 1 incoming freshman to be an impact guy - I think this will happen, probably McDuffie. We need to start grooming a backup point guard. We need another beast in the paint. All these things can happen, but I don't see the beast with the current group.

[Blackmag]

I look for Nurger to work his ass of this summer in the weight room with Kerry as was stated by Mike Kennedy before the game. Nurger said he's looking forward to it. He has the skill set, he just needs to get stronger so he doesn't get pushed off the block. Along with anotheir year for Morris, Kelly, Brown, and who we have coming in...as Marshall said we will be even better next year, actually I feel we over-acheived with the bench be so young this year. Really people around the country didn't really realize how young we were, 8 new guys and the ones that played the most were freshmen.

[AndShock]

Fred and Ron deserve a national championship before they're done.

[vancedave56]

It can happen.

[WillieJeffJeffries]

We need the BUSHman to turn into Hakeem O over the summer

[molly jabali]

It really is a much better scenario to look at when you consider how LITTLE the new 8 had ever experienced...some blossomed some, some disappeared some, and all rode a rollercoaster.BUT....the payoff could be next year.

The key is Gregg.

[forevershockerfan]

I think if feel better after tonight if we got a few words from @forevershockerfan. Where is that guy anyway? Haven't heard from him tonight.

Never fear, FSF is here. I'm glad it is not about me at all but rather our beloved Shocks. I did post after the game on the game thread stating the Shocks had a very nice Season. 30-5 with 8 new players, a Valley Ship, and a Sweet 16? We will take it and be happy as a lark with that. As far as next Season, it will potentially be more of the same. Right now, we hope to move forward with our same Coaching Staff and all of our key players returning. I doubt we are done recruiting. If all that works out, look for another banner Season. These Shocks have been achieving something special every Season for a very long time, We will know more about all of this as the days go by. Enjoy this because it has been Shocker History in the making by both what the Shocks have done collectively and several of our players stats. Stay tuned!!!!!!! Go Shockers!!!!!!!

[Slalomshocker]

Its hard not to be excited about the 3 youngsters that came off the bench. Zach Brown....kid is gona be good, very good. Shaq is going to get better each year, especially learning how to stay out of foul trouble. The game should eventually slow down for Rashard Kelly...and he has the skills to be quite good. Oh...and we get Connor's shooting ability, have a couple 6'7, 6'8 guys in Hamilton and McDuffie coming in that are getting strong reviews....And a couple of good guards coming in.... And to top it all off, I think Wamukota showed he can be a valuable asset. If he can improve as much over the summer as he did throughout the year, he will contribute a lot at the 5. Its going to be interesting to see how it all shakes out this summer, but I don't think anyone is going to say "rebuilding".

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

There is no freaking way that Fred gets drafted higher than Cle did after last year. Cle was amazing in the tournament, has a NBA body matched perfectly for his position, and still fell to round 2. FVV will be back next year to lead the Shox to another great season. Watching FVV's senior season stats go off the charts is just one of the things I'm looking forward to.

[jdshock]

There is no freaking way that Fred gets drafted higher than Cle did after last year. Cle was amazing in the tournament, has a NBA body matched perfectly for his position, and still fell to round 2. FVV will be back next year to lead the Shox to another great season. Watching FVV's senior season stats go off the charts is just one of the things I'm looking forward to.

There are a few factors that could play into this. First, I agree that FVV would not be predicted to go higher than Cle was predicted to go. Around 17-25 roughly, I think, is what Cle was predicted for. You said that Cle is perfect for his position, but he played the 4 not the 3 in college. While physically he's great for the 3, he wasn't trained for the 3. Also, if I remember right, it was widely reported that he didn't impress during his workouts. Second, Just like the tournament depends on match-ups, the draft depends on what players each team needs. Overall, if FVV declared this year, I think he'd be predicted early to mid second round.

The third is potentially the most important. If FVV wants to play professional basketball in the NBA, he has to take advantage of what he thinks will be his best chance. What did he average in the NCAA tournament? It was over 20 points a game, right? So let's say his stock rose in the tournament. Will his stock rise next year? It seems unlikely to me anyway. He may certainly get better next year, but he was a pre-season all-american this year and then dominated in the tournament. I don't know much about next year's draft class, but this year is certainly quite a bit weaker than last season's. I'm just saying that FVV has a lot to think about, and it wouldn't necessarily be dumb to leave this year even if he were predicted as a second round pick. College will always be available to him. I know that's an unpopular sentiment on this forum, but professional athletics can be a once in a lifetime opportunity.

After saying all of that, I'd take bad odds and still bet that FVV is coming back. His back is going to be sore after carrying our team for the last three games, but it really exemplified what HCGM said: FVV is one of the most competitive men in the world. FVV isn't going to be happy unless the last game he plays as a shocker is a win. He's got one more chance to do that, and I don't think he will leave that on the table.

[Stickboy46]

There are a few factors that could play into this. First, I agree that FVV would not be predicted to go higher than Cle was predicted to go. Around 17-25 roughly, I think, is what Cle was predicted for. You said that Cle is perfect for his position, but he played the 4 not the 3 in college. While physically he's great for the 3, he wasn't trained for the 3. Also, if I remember right, it was widely reported that he didn't impress during his workouts. Second, Just like the tournament depends on match-ups, the draft depends on what players each team needs. Overall, if FVV declared this year, I think he'd be predicted early to mid second round.

The third is potentially the most important. If FVV wants to play professional basketball in the NBA, he has to take advantage of what he thinks will be his best chance. What did he average in the NCAA tournament? It was over 20 points a game, right? So let's say his stock rose in the tournament. Will his stock rise next year? It seems unlikely to me anyway. He may certainly get better next year, but he was a pre-season all-american this year and then dominated in the tournament. I don't know much about next year's draft class, but this year is certainly quite a bit weaker than last season's. I'm just saying that FVV has a lot to think about, and it wouldn't necessarily be dumb to leave this year even if he were predicted as a second round pick. College will always be available to him. I know that's an unpopular sentiment on this forum, but professional athletics can be a once in a lifetime opportunity.

After saying all of that, I'd take bad odds and still bet that FVV is coming back. His back is going to be sore after carrying our team for the last three games, but it really exemplified what HCGM said: FVV is one of the most competitive men in the world. FVV isn't going to be happy unless the last game he plays as a shocker is a win. He's got one more chance to do that, and I don't think he will leave that on the table.

The problem for Fred is, His height almost precludes him from ANY position. Cle could slide from a 4 to 3 based on height and ability. If you are considered too short for a 1 position, where do you slide to? Also, I haven't seen Fred on any board that says anything other than 2nd round/Undrafted. Cle was mid first round projection and STILL didn't make the first. Fred's an awesome point guard and I bet he would great in the NBA and probably will, but I doubt he will get drafted in the First round this year OR next. He will have to earn his way in the hard way.

[jdshock]

The problem for Fred is, His height almost precludes him from ANY position. Cle could slide from a 4 to 3 based on height and ability. If you are considered too short for a 1 position, where do you slide to? Also, I haven't seen Fred on any board that says anything other than 2nd round/Undrafted. Cle was mid first round projection and STILL didn't make the first. Fred's an awesome point guard and I bet he would great in the NBA and probably will, but I doubt he will get drafted in the First round this year OR next. He will have to earn his way in the hard way.

Yeah, Fred's height is going to hurt his chances. There are examples of point guards that have made it at his height, which does make it more promising. But that's exactly what I'm saying: next year he isn't going to be a first round pick either. You said you haven't seen any board that has him in the first round. That's true, and I said that he wasn't going to get drafted in the first round. It is also true we haven't really seen an update since he performed so well in the tournament, but regardless, he's not a first round pick.

Some on this board have gotten stuck in this logic of "if you're not first round, you stay." Which happens to be a pretty good rule for the freak-of-nature, get drafted based on potential, type freshmen and sophomores out there. Someone that is an upperclassman should go when they are maximizing their draft stock. For Fred, that might be this year. I think he'll stay for another year. But you even agreed that he's not a first round pick if he stays another year.

I hope Fred has a ton of success in the NBA. I don't think, however, he will play many minutes beyond the D-league. I think he'll get his cup of coffee and come back and coach at the college level. I'm just trying to say that if the NBA is his aspiration, this year might make the most sense.

[Dan]

Fred is an interesting prospect. He probably would grade poorly at a typical NBA workout. He's short, not lightning fast, can't jump real high and isn't a deadly shooter. After they run him through all the tests, they come to the conclusion that he's not a world class athlete. Fred probably doesn't even excel at the 2 on 2 or 3 on 3 drills. You can't replicate Fred's abilities in a laboratory, it has to be in a real game situation. I have no doubt Fred could make an NBA point guard, but will someone give him a shot?

[HockeyShock]

I still contend that Fred VanVleet will have a long NBA career, for the simple reason that he's smarter than anybody else in the league, with the possible exception of Chris Paul. What good is a 6'6" body when you're turning the ball over half the time? He is the best point guard I have ever been blessed to see play in person.

And, he has the work ethic to excel at whatever level he's at. He's not just going to outthink you, he's going to outwork you. He's an absolute master of the hesitation dribble. His handles are second to none. You give me the choice between Fred VanVleet and Frank Mason III, I pick Fred every day and twice on Sundays. You give me the choice between Fred VanVleet and Mario Chalmers, same thing. Michael Carter-Williams? Same thing - why have a point guard who can't pass? Isaiah Thomas (the good one) in his prime, SAME THING. Fred wouldn't have given up "The Steal" to Bird.

I'm not even joking. He might not get drafted, but he'll be starting on Christmas Day someday.

[asiseeit]

Unfortunately, for may prospective pro athletes AND college ones, as well. the "experts"
focus on prototypical size,speed, strength, etc believing THEY can teach athletes that
fit into their windows, but no one can teach what FVV has, or for that matter,what TC
has.