The Annual HCGM's WSU Future

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

MVC is driving Gregg nuts. You have to win 24-27 games to get a 10-11 seed.

34 wins is a lot, but it earned a 1 seed.
28 wins earned a 7 seed despite only 1 at-large quality team on the non-con schedule.
27 wins earned a 5 seed by having 4 at-large quality teams on the non-con schedule.
26 wins earned a 9 seed despite only 1 at-large quality team on the non-con schedule.
24 wins earned an 11 seed despite a total flop in the non-con and the weakest MVC in over a decade.

Nov/Dec tourneys make it much easier these days to get a couple of quality opponents in the non-con. There is no reason WSU shouldn't be able to keep the non-con fairly respectable year-in-year-out.

The formula is easy
1) Play a few decent non-con games.
2) Beat the garbage teams you inevitably have to face (non-con and MVC alike)
3) Split (or better) in the dozen or so top 100 games you get to play.
4) Go dancing every year.

Really good years you win more than 50% of your toughest dozen games and you get a nice high single digit seed.
Average years you split the toughest dozen games and possibly go to the 8vs9 game round 1.
Down years, or years riddled with injuries, even just winning 1/3rd of your toughest games will likely get you on the bubble. In 2016, it was enough to get the Shox in.

[shocka khan]

There is a Greg in the NBA thats done pretty well for himself and pretty much does what he wants.

Yes, but to contrast what bad ownership and a bad GM can do for a team, you have a franchise about 210 miles east-northeast of San Antonio (Houston) who has a player who in the course of a season:
1) Got a coach fired for publically calling said player out for his lack of hustle.
2) Went to the front office and whined that he couldn't play with one of his team mates (Dwight Howard), which created a toxic situation for both the team and the player in question (Howard is indicating through his agent he will leave at the end of the season).
3) Was called out by the interim HC for his lack of hustle (and nothing happened).
4) Missed the NBA playoffs.

This player is a lazy shoot-first point guard who is not remotely interested in playing defense. He is one of the Kardashians man-crushes and he also makes commercials for Taco Bell. Aside from that, he has absolutely ZERO attributes to be a franchise player.

San Antonio is different. I believe that Pop was at least GM for a time (may or may not be now, I don't keep up with that) who is successful enough to have absolute control over player-personnel decisions AND has owners who have his back. Also note that Pop came up as an Assistant Coach in the NBA, I don't think anyone in the NBA would give Marshall the time of day chiefly for that reason.

Pop is a really great coach, who works for a really great organization, which is very untypical for most professional sports franchises.

I think Houston's experience is more typical for most teams in the NBA.

[ShockingButTrue]

Incorrect .. you don't tank your OOC and you lose to UNI twice and ISUr once ..you are a 4-7 seed. You tank your OOC AND lose to UNI twice and ISUr once you are in the play-in game.

We lost to UNI and ISUr last year, but didn't have a good or bad OOC (relatively, we had a bad loss and really no good wins) and got a 7 seed. No where near the play in game.

Oh ok... Losing in the semis to the Panthers wasn't the deciding factor that pushed them back huh? Getting to the finals would'nt have made a difference?

Going into the final game last year the Panthers were ranked 10th in the country. What was the bad loss last year that pushed us to a 7? G. Washington? With 4 seniors returning from a tournament team the year before?

I'll stand by my point that the loss to the Panthers was considered a bad one. Damaging even. Didn't you watch all the shows leading up to THE selection show?

[Stickboy46]

Oh ok... Losing in the semis to the Panthers wasn't the deciding factor that pushed them back huh? Getting to the finals would'nt have made a difference?

Going into the final game last year the Panthers were ranked 10th in the country. What was the bad loss last year that pushed us to a 7? G. Washington? With 4 seniors returning from a tournament team the year before?

I'll stand by my point that the loss to the Panthers was considered a bad one. Damaging even. Didn't you watch all the shows leading up to THE selection show?

Yet again .. We don't tank in the OOC .. we are like a 5-6 seed even with the UNI loss. The UNI loss isn't what put us in the play in game. It was the losses to Tulsa, Alabama, USC, Iowa, and Seton Hall. The only good win was Utah ... Not that hard to understand. If we win the MVC tourney this year, we are maybe a 9-10 seed.

[ShockerFever]

He probably won't admit it but thats the reason he would leave. MVC is driving Gregg nuts. You have to win 24-27 games to get a 10-11 seed.

Just stop posting. It's beyond embarrassing now.

[ShockingButTrue]

Yet again .. We don't tank in the OOC .. we are like a 5-6 seed even with the UNI loss. The UNI loss isn't what put us in the play in game. It was the losses to Tulsa, Alabama, USC, Iowa, and Seton Hall. The only good win was Utah ... Not that hard to understand. If we win the MVC tourney this year, we are maybe a 9-10 seed.

If you insist... If we'd have made it to the finals and lost what would our seed have been?... The committe did us a favor this year because of the seniors. I'll hunt up GGG's comments on the selection process prior to, when I get the chance. His fears almost came true.

Again, what was the bad loss last year that pushed us down to a 7?

[Stickboy46]

If you insist... If we'd have made it to the finals and lost what would our seed have been?... The committe did us a favor this year because of the seniors. I'll hunt up GGG's comments on the selection process prior to, when I get the chance. His fears almost came true.

Again, what was the bad loss last year that pushed us down to a 7?

The GW loss and the lack of GOOD wins is what killed us last year. The committee proves year after year that Quality wins means more than anything. Bad losses mean very little unless they are horrible (200+) losses.

[ShockingButTrue]

The GW loss and the lack of GOOD wins is what killed us last year. The committee proves year after year that Quality wins means more than anything. Bad losses mean very little unless they are horrible (200+) losses.

Ok. I'm with you now. The loss to UNI in the semis wasn't really a bad-BAD loss. Just a sort of, kind of, bad loss... And that's what ALL the exerts REALLY meant with all the endless pablum leading up to selections. And my week of being nervous because of said loss to UNI, and all references to it, was needless?

Whew, thank you Stickboy. I feel better now.

[Stickboy46]

Ok. I'm with you now. The loss to UNI in the semis wasn't really a bad-BAD loss. Just a sort of, kind of, bad loss... And that's what ALL the exerts REALLY meant with all the endless pablum leading up to selections. And my week of being nervous because of said loss to UNI, and all references to it, was needless?

Whew, thank you Stickboy. I feel better now.

The media doesn't make the bracket. Even so, I rarely saw anyone refer to WSU's "bad losses" as much as the lack of quality wins as the reason why we were seeded low (or not included in some cases). Yet again, the Committee consistently puts a huge emphasis on quality wins. Mediocre losses (UNI as a ~70 RPI, falls there) have nearly no impact. You should have been nervous about getting into the tourney .. but not because of the UNI loss. Its because of the 5 losses in Non-Conf that cost us 4 possible wins against at-large quality teams.

[SHOCKvalue]

Ok. I'm with you now. The loss to UNI in the semis wasn't really a bad-BAD loss. Just a sort of, kind of, bad loss... And that's what ALL the exerts REALLY meant with all the endless pablum leading up to selections. And my week of being nervous because of said loss to UNI, and all references to it, was needless?

Whew, thank you Stickboy. I feel better now.

So you do realize that none of the six NCAA appearances in the past ten years required an auto-bid, right?

I also presume you have been a Shocker fan long enough to recall that 24 months ago we received a one seed, when they could've slapped us with a two or three based on any number of criteria outside of W-L?

You've also obfuscated the five seed in 2012 from your mind as well, I assume?

The truth of the matter is we have been seeded fairly, except for just the past two years. Last year I think the KU matchup was just too much for them; this year it has been reported they had a hard-on for number of top 100 wins, which we didn't have much of for reasons already discussed on this forum ad nauseam.

[ShockBand]

The truth of the matter is we have been seeded fairly, except for just the past two years. Last year I think the KU matchup was just too much for them; this year it has been reported they had a hard-on for number of top 100 wins, which we didn't have much of for reasons already discussed on this forum ad nauseam.

Selection Committee Boner of the Year?

[jocoshock]

Is Vandy actually considered a decent job or is it just their fans being obnoxious? If they had the same records last season I would probably consider Georgia Tech a better job, Vandy probably only gets the edge since it's not a rebuilding job like GT is.

Fogler thought it was...

[MadDog]

Is Vandy considering the Belmont coach? I thought he was viewed as highly successful, and isn't Belmont in Nashville?

[ShockingButTrue]

You've also obfuscated the five seed in 2012 from your mind as well, I assume?

The truth of the matter is we have been seeded fairly, except for just the past two years.

Lol... Ah no, I think you did.

[shoxrox89]

http://www.scout.com/college/vanderbilt/forums/2200-men-s-basketball/14665778-just-so-you-know

Wow the nerve of these backwoods hillbilly's.