Lutz, Marshall, Self and Turgeon

[owenc]

That being said, I have always thought that the only reason WSU and KU, or WSU and KSU don't play is all about legitimacy. That is the only word that matters.

Self can talk about how WSU deserves better than a 7-seed, and I think he probably does believe that. But he has no reason to give WSU a chance to show how close it is on the court to KU. It has nothing to do with money, nothing to do with anything else. There is no reason for KU to play the game, no upside, other than getting another quality home and home (of which they can get with pretty much every program in the country).

WSU beating KU in CKA legitimizes the program. What if they did it 2 out of 4 years? Does that change the landscape of basketball in this state? Historically, no. For the time being, maybe. There is more at stake for KU to lose perception-wise for a home-and-home with WSU than any other program in the country except maybe Mizzou at this point. ( And at this point that program is nothing).

I think I used this analogy a while back. It is like the libertarians not being invited to the Democrat and GOP debate. I don't believe the GOP and Dems are scared they're going to lose to the 3rd party, they just don't see a need to raise them to their level. (not a perfect analogy, and I am not trying to get political.)

I'd have to agree with most of this and it is a very good analogy.

I only think you may underestimate the importance of the money. It really is a machine at this point.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure Bill Self knows how good WSU is. No way is he looking forward to that matchup, especially with this year's team and down a starter.

Beat Indiana.

Amen.

[owenc]

Hahah yes. We all somehow "cracked" the RPI formula. That was great. Now they ignore it and put UCLA instead of Temple just because.

Unfortunately, I think this too is all about the money. The entire Colorado State team should should get a free kick to the nads of anyone who says "eyeball test".

[Kung Wu]

Yea, because Bill Self doesn't schedule games they might lose. Give me a break. Top 5 schedule in the country how many years in a row?

Nope, has nothing to do with strength of schedule, as to why they are afraid to lose to Wichita State.

The KU administration doesn't want the game because if they lose to Wichita, it validates and brings unwanted attention to a Division 1 competitor in the largest city in their own state. That makes recruiting Wichita more difficult both for athletes AND students. THAT'S why the KU administration is scared to lose to Wichita State. It creates a completely different slew of problems for KU should they lose to Wichita State -- in their marquee sport -- than losing does against any other team in the nation.

Edit: After reading further, @ShockerExpress is all over it -- we're on the same page. But it's still fear of losing that drives their behavior.

[ShockerFever]

Ok Chris, time to stop caring so much on what happens in WSUland.

[Dave Stalwart]

Nope, has nothing to do with strength of schedule why they are afraid to lose to Wichita State.

The KU administration doesn't want the game because if they lose to Wichita, it validates and brings unwanted attention to a Division 1 competitor in the largest city in their own state. That makes recruiting Wichita more difficult both for athletes AND students. THAT'S why the KU administration is scared to lose to Wichita State. It creates a completely different slew of problems for KU should they lose to Wichita State -- in their marquee sport -- than losing does against any other team in the nation.

Edit: After reading further, @ShockerExpress is all over it -- we're on the same page. But it's still fear of losing that drives their behavior.

Exactly. No, he isn't "afraid of losing" in general. He's afraid of losing TO WSU. And it's obvious. KU fans always say he plays a tough schedule like it means anything about this particular thing. Bill Self says he has nothing to gain by playing a game that equals the difficulty of many other games already on his schedule, so what's the X factor here that always prevents the game? He could open up a huge can of worms in his own mind by losing the game. That's called being afraid to schedule WSU. If it wasn't about the fear of what might happen if the public got to witness WSU win some in the series, then it would be no different than scheduling any other game. The only reason it isn't getting scheduled is KU being afraid to play WSU, specifically. What's funny to me is that I really don't even think it would hurt anything about the "brand" or the "recruiting Wichita" nonsense. College basketball recruiting is way bigger than 1 city.

Anyway, getting matched up with us in the postseason is a terrible situation for a guy who goes to such great lengths to avoid us. I'm just so tired of this state being bass ackwards about scheduling together, and it's about time people got to see this game.

If both teams get there, the state is practically going to shut down on Sunday and fork out tons of money to go to Omaha or go out to bars all over. People will BUY a cable package to have access to this game. That kind of stuff could be happening for our state economy every year.

[_kai_]

I don't care what ANYONE says, I will not change my mind that this is not about basketball, this is about KU the institution not wanting an in state COMPETITOR to have better ground to stand on in competition. This isn't just a recent thing, this isn't just a thing from the 80's, this is something that goes back to Fairmount University then Wichita University's attempt to become a state school. They were denied two times in the 60's from the Kansas Board of Regents. There is history to this situation that trumps athletics. Don't get it crossed.

[jdshock]

I don't care what ANYONE says, I will not change my mind that this is not about basketball, this is about KU the institution not wanting an in state COMPETITOR to have better ground to stand on in competition. This isn't just a recent thing, this isn't just a thing from the 80's, this is something that goes back to Fairmount University then Wichita University's attempt to become a state school. They were denied two times in the 60's from the Kansas Board of Regents. There is history to this situation that trumps athletics. Don't get it crossed.

If anyone is interested in this subject, http://shockernet.net/forum/showthre...l=1#post387644

[shockmonster]

Two things first off... 1. Beat Indiana. 2. At this point, it really doesn't matter whether they play or not. And I used to care, and honestly don't anymore.


That being said, I have always thought that the only reason WSU and KU, or WSU and KSU don't play is all about legitimacy. That is the only word that matters.

he has no reason to give WSU a chance to show how close it is on the court to KU. It has nothing to do with money
no upside
WSU beating KU in CKA legitimizes the program
There is more at stake for KU to lose perception-wise

You are Owen use the words "LEGITICAMCY" or "NO UPSIDE" or "LOSS OF PERCEPTION"

Others use the words
"ARROGANCE" and "AFRAID TO LOSE"

You use your words and others will use theirs.

The only thing we agree on is "BEAT INDIANA"

[WstateU]

The only thing we agree on is "BEAT INDIANA"

Yea, send 'em...

[ShockBand]

I don't care what ANYONE says, I will not change my mind that this is not about basketball, this is about KU the institution not wanting an in state COMPETITOR to have better ground to stand on in competition. This isn't just a recent thing, this isn't just a thing from the 80's, this is something that goes back to Fairmount University then Wichita University's attempt to become a state school. They were denied two times in the 60's from the Kansas Board of Regents. There is history to this situation that trumps athletics. Don't get it crossed.

Then there is the whole med school deal. More flagshi+ obstruction.

[shock]

I think people are taking Turgs comments out of context. It's not difficult to see he could be proud of his part in the rebuild, and his comment about understanding Bill's position seems to be more of a complement to WSU than a back handed comment.

[OregonShocker]

I don't care what ANYONE says, I will not change my mind that this is not about basketball, this is about KU the institution not wanting an in state COMPETITOR to have better ground to stand on in competition. This isn't just a recent thing, this isn't just a thing from the 80's, this is something that goes back to Fairmount University then Wichita University's attempt to become a state school. They were denied two times in the 60's from the Kansas Board of Regents. There is history to this situation that trumps athletics. Don't get it crossed.

Read "Uncloistered Halls" about WSU history, and you'll start to see that KU tries to shove us down every time we start to rise in prominence...in anything!

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

FWIW, I honestly believe KU plays K-State only because they have to. If they weren't in the same conference as KU, KSU would get the same treatment. It's not about basketball, it's about perception and hubris.

[ISASO]

FWIW, I honestly believe KU plays K-State only because they have to. If they weren't in the same conference as KU, KSU would get the same treatment. It's not about basketball, it's about perception and hubris.

KU is very territorial with taxpayer money. If it's collected, it's theirs. If anyone else gets a dime, they are pissed. Basketball is money + pride. Guess how much that ups the ante? About a gazillion.

[MoValley John]

KU is very territorial with taxpayer money. If it's collected, it's theirs. If anyone else gets a dime, they are pissed. Basketball is money + pride. Guess how much that ups the ante? About a gazillion.

You are wrong. Kansas is very generous, just ask them.
This is taken from phog.net:

Sorry for not providing a link (haven't mastered that yet), but there is an extremely interesting article on Bloomberg Business website addressing the March Madness Makers and Takers.* If someone could post a link that would be great.* The article details the enormous amount of money the NCAA generates from March Madness from TV revenue, ticket sales, and other sources.* There is a breakdown of how the funds are distributed to the conferences and how much the participating schools receive.* To me, the most interesting part of the article is the difference between the amount of money generated for the NCAA by individual schools -- due to the number of tournament games played -- versus the amount ultimately received by those schools.* Indeed, KU appears to have generated the highest dollar amount among all NCAA teams in the country -- $66 million for the Big XII conference.* However, according to Bloomberg, KU has only received $24 million of the $66 million it generated for the conference.* The rest -- $42 million -- was apparently distributed to the other Big XII schools.* If true, this fact alone shows why KU would be welcomed with open arms into another conference if realignment became necessary.***** *

So what you have here is a very giving, generous program. They gave $42mm! Over six years! To nine other programs! Rounded up to $45mm, that means for the last six years, the Jayhawks have given all the other Big 12 schools $834,000 each year to run their athletic departments. That dwarfs whatever figure KU gets from football welfare! Any conference would want them!