Missouri Valley Conference Post Season Honors

[1972Shocker]

The Basketball Power Index (BPI) is a team rating system that accounts for the final score, pace of play, site, strength of opponent and absence of key players in every Division I men's game. BPI can be used to measure both how well a team has performed (going far beyond just wins and losses) and how powerful it is likely to be going forward.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bpi

I believe this was inspired by Dick Martin (Laugh-In): "You bet your sweet bippy!"

[Jatrain]

When you are the dominant program in the league, you just have to get used to this type of stuff. Your coach will rarely win Coach of the Year - it'll go to the guy whose team was picked 8th preseason and finishes 4th. Because "he exceeded expectations" and "did more with less". As you have a bunch of good players and scoring gets spread around, you won't have very many 1st team all league guys because those spots will go to guys who put up good numbers on mediocre teams because everything runs through them. (KU in 2008 won the league, won the national championship, had 6 guys drafted off of that team, didn't have a single 1st team all-Big 12 player).

They can't beat your team on the court, but they can not vote for your guys off of it.

[The Mad Hatter]

I don't have a huge problem with Jacobson winning COY since he is a very good coach and had a very good season, but to the degree I have a problem it is this:

He didn't win on objective performance, obviously, since his team finished 2nd, so he won on performance relative to expectation (which is fine).

Why was this year's results a vast improvement over expectation? Because of last year's results.

What happened last year? By Jacobson's own accounting, UNI underperformed because he failed to coach defense to his normal standards.

In other words, Jacobson wins coach of the year because by his own admission his previous season of coaching was so bad that he squandered their talent and set a low bar. Marshall, on the other hand, is penalized for out performing Jacobson this year because he did such a good job last year.

On top of all that, Marshall had to replace his top assistant coach this year (whose value is pretty clear with the Bowling Green turnaround), whereas Jacobson's entire staff stayed in tact from the previous season.

One more addendum,

Marshall was also having to replace far more of his lineup than Jacobson. Not only did UNI return their top 6 scorers and add a D1 transfer in Jespersen, but here is how returning scoring and rebounding compared:

	Scoring	Rebounding
UNI	91.2%	91.3%
WSU	59.0%	57.2%

UNI's only real loss was Chip Rank and WSU lost 3 players who had more ppg and rpg than Rank, including an NBA player and team leading scorer in Cle.

Not only did they not lose as much, but they were more senior heavy this year. Here is the percentage of scoring and rebounding by senior on each team:

	Scoring	Rebounding
UNI	52.6%	53.5%
WSU	29.3%	26.0%

While WSU may have some clear talent advantages (let's ignore a coach's role in recruiting for the moment), UNI had a clear advantage in roster turnover and senior experience, both of which makes a coaches job a lot easier, yet Marshall still won the Valley title.

Once again, great coaching by both Jacobson and Marshall, but I have a hard time not giving COY to the person who:

1. Won the conference title outright.
2. Had substantially greater turnover on his coaching staff.
3. Had substantially greater turnover on his player roster.
4. Had a less senior heavy squad.

[1972Shocker]

I expected UNI to finish 2nd in the conference but I did not expect them to go 27-3 and 16-2. OTOH, I expected the Shocks to win the conference but they also outperformed my expectations at 27-3 and 17-1.

UNI probably surprised me a little bit more than the Shocks did. The one big advantage Jacobson had was that he had a very experienced team with 5 Seniors and 5 Juniors (2 Juco transfers).

The big advantage Marshall had was the best guard trio in the country plus two other experienced starters but after that he had zero D-1 experience.

The 3rd place teams Illinois State and Indiana State finished 5 games behind UNI and INS finished with a 15-15 overall record. UNI and WSU were so far better than the rest of the conference perhaps the proper outcome would have been for these coaches to have shared the COY award.

[boilershock]

One more addendum,

Marshall was also having to replace far more of his lineup than Jacobson. Not only did UNI return their top 6 scorers and add a D1 transfer in Jespersen, but here is how returning scoring and rebounding compared:

	Scoring	Rebounding
UNI	91.2%	91.3%
WSU	59.0%	57.2%

UNI's only real loss was Chip Rank and WSU lost 3 players who had more ppg and rpg than Rank, including an NBA player and team leading scorer in Cle.

Not only did they not lose as much, but they were more senior heavy this year. Here is the percentage of scoring and rebounding by senior on each team:

	Scoring	Rebounding
UNI	52.6%	53.5%
WSU	29.3%	26.0%

While WSU may have some clear talent advantages (let's ignore a coach's role in recruiting for the moment), UNI had a clear advantage in roster turnover and senior experience, both of which makes a coaches job a lot easier, yet Marshall still won the Valley title.

Once again, great coaching by both Jacobson and Marshall, but I have a hard time not giving COY to the person who:

1. Won the conference title outright.
2. Had substantially greater turnover on his coaching staff.
3. Had substantially greater turnover on his player roster.
4. Had a less senior heavy squad.

The look on Marshall's face at the luncheon said it all. NOT PLEASED AT ALL!!! He couldn't get out of there quick enough when it was over.

[ShockerFever]

Who wins sunday will tell us who is better

Go away, moron.

[wufan]

You act as if the BEST player on the team is the ONLY player on the team. This isn't an individual sport after all.

There is nothing logically wrong with saying:
UNI had the player of the year.
WSU had a better overall team.
Both teams had almost identical seasons.
Conclusion: UNI's coach deserves the award.

We can debate the talent evaluations of Team A and Team B, but the logic of "if this, then this" is very solid.

This is NOT AT ALL how logic works.

[SB Shock]

Who wins sunday will tell us who is better

I don't think you can definitively say that. What if the team that wins on Sunday, loses in the first round, but the loser on Sunday makes an Elite 8?

[SHOCKvalue]

UNI split with Wichita State so I'm trying to figure out why you guys think just because you won the regular season title you guys are miles ahead of where UNI is at. We still don't know who is better yet because they will most likely play again in the championship game. Who wins that game. That to me is the team that is better.

WSU went 1-2 against Creighton in 2012-2013. Do you recall what happened that year? Creighton fans sure do because they STILL play the "better than" card against WSU in reference to that season due to that head-to-head record, completely ignoring the fact that WSU ended up in the F4, and - surprise - CU again found out for the umpteenth time that white dudes playing HORSE equals a participation ribbon in the NCAA tourney. I'm not saying a F4 or NC is going to happen for either WSU or UNI this year, but let's hold onto the "better than" card until we show performance in the NCAA tourney, regardless of what happens this weekend.

And not trying to flame you here or anything, but it is a forgone conclusion that even if UNI>WSU this particular season, when it comes to various metrics (fan support, fan base size, operational budget, coaching salaries, totality of program history, etc) WSU>UNI without even a second thought, program versus program. Gregg Marshall's total salary package alone is roughly equivalent to your entire annual MBB budget - not an exaggeration. If WSU were to make it to the F4 again his total compensation would actually exceed your MBB budget due to incentives (it did so back in 2013).

[1972Shocker]

WSU has established that it was the best team in the Valley during the regular season over an 18-game schedule.

Whoever wins the Valley Tournament will have established the are the better team this weekend.

What the NCAA's means remains to be seen. So much depends on matchups and upsets that might work in a team favor.

The one thing that is clear is that UNI and WSU are two very fine basketball teams that are capable of playing with anyone in the country. This must be true since that is basically quoting Seth Greenberg.

[shocksrbest]

WSU has established that it was the best team in the Valley during the regular season over an 18-game schedule.

Whoever wins the Valley Tournament will have established the are the better team this weekend.

What the NCAA's means remains to be seen. So much depends on matchups and upsets that might work in a team favor.

The one think that is clear is that UNI and WSU are two very fine basketball teams that are capable of playing with anyone in the country. This must be true since that is basically quoting Seth Greenberg.

Here's hoping both make at least the second weekend.

[LandStander]

The look on Marshall's face at the luncheon said it all. NOT PLEASED AT ALL!!! He couldn't get out of there quick enough when it was over.

This statement worries me about Marshall leaving than a schools coaching vacancy. I hope 3G doesn't get tired of this bs because it's not going away.

[wu_shizzle]

You finally end Wichita State's ridiculous run of Valley victories? Congratulations, you win the Gregg Marshall Valley Coach of the Year award.

[ShockBand]

Perfect. Piss off HCGM and the team just before the Valley tournament. Time to enter annihilate mode!

[DUShock]

Is it me or is Elgin seem less than enthused when awarding the Shocker players?