Fred Van Vleet Is The Most Statistically Dominant Point Guard Of The Modern Era

[BRocca]

Cool stat comparisons. It's an honor for FVV just to be in the same mention as these guys.

Out of curiosity I compared him to Chris Paul - I didn't see him on here. It looks like Paul gets him in nearly every stat but I wanted to see how he compared to a similar sized body who is now the best PG in the pros.

I suck at getting this onto spreadsheets so here's the link - http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/com...&p1=chris-paul

I'd love to see my birds have a cornerstone player like that. Am very curious to see what kind of stats he can put up before he leaves.

[wufan]

Speaking of stats Fred was credited with a 5-5 FG shooting vs Loyola, but he did throw up a hail mary from 3/4's court as the 1st half ended. Perhaps he did not get the shot of before the buzzer. I would have to go back and look at that again.

Half court heaves are generally not considered to be shot attempts.

[Good News]

Cool stat comparisons. It's an honor for FVV just to be in the same mention as these guys.

Out of curiosity I compared him to Chris Paul - I didn't see him on here. It looks like Paul gets him in nearly every stat but I wanted to see how he compared to a similar sized body who is now the best PG in the pros.

I suck at getting this onto spreadsheets so here's the link - http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/com...&p1=chris-paul

I'd love to see my birds have a cornerstone player like that. Am very curious to see what kind of stats he can put up before he leaves.

Not sure why/how I missed Chris Paul, but you're right that is a big omission. Same deal as with Jason Kidd - the stats don't mean you would pick one over the other, but when I look at Chris Paul's stats on the 3 primary metrics I laid out, Fred is still way ahead of him:

Chris Paul only had an A/TO ratio of 2.3 for his career, compared to Fred at well over 3x.

Chris Paul had 160 steals versus 171 turnovers and 163 fouls, so while he was very close he still didn't meet either metric.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/pla...est/chris-paul

[1972Shocker]

Half court heaves are generally not considered to be shot attempts.

Thanks. That kind of what I though might be the case. Of course, if you make it ala Loyola's Peterson I suppose it does count as a shot attempt.

[Rlh04d]

I have been less enthusiastic about Fred this year than I was in previous years. Some out here have taken "less enthusiastic" as being critical.

I'm interested in seeing a statistical study of what percentage of Aargh's posts since the Frankamp thread are prefaced with a "people are being mean to me, but ..." type of sentence.

[1979Shocker]

Half court heaves are generally not considered to be shot attempts.

So that half court shot that the Loyola player made wasn't considered a shot attempt?

[Rlh04d]

@PrymeTyme4lyfe: LOVES ILLINOIS A JUNIOR NOW BUT HAS ONLY MISSED ONE FREE THROW IN THE STATE OF ILLINOIS SINCE BEING IN COLLEGE http://twitter.com/PrymeTyme4lyfe/st...204480/photo/1

One of you stat freaks can verify this??

Wow, that's actually right:

2014-15
@ Loyola 3-4


2013-14
@ SIU 5-5
@ IlSt 1-1
@ Loyola 10-10
@ Bradley 0-0


2012-13
@ Bradley 1-1
@ SIU 0-0
@ IlSt 0-0

He's also at 58% on FGs for his career in Illinois, 60% from 3, and 95.2% FTs. 10.9 PPG for his career, and 14.4 ppg as a starter (63.9% FGs, 58.3% 3's).

[Play Angry]

Whoa.

[Cdizzle]

Wow, that's actually right:

2014-15
@ Loyola 3-4


2013-14
@ SIU 5-5
@ IlSt 1-1
@ Loyola 10-10
@ Bradley 0-0


2012-13
@ Bradley 1-1
@ SIU 0-0
@ IlSt 0-0

So, you're telling me Fred actually had an off night last night and shouldn't have been considered for player of the game? Dang it. I guess I owe an apology email to *******.

[Perezident]

Great post Good News, thank you!!

I only see one glaring omission, your failure to include the hands down all-time greatest PG in history, Doug Gottlieb. LOL it was quite difficult typing that even in sarcasm.

[Rlh04d]

I just edited in his overall statistical numbers in Illinois to my above post.

He also has averaged 4.6 assists per game in Illinois, 3.36:1 A:TO ratio overall, and an incredible 6.6:1 A:TO ratio as a starter.

That's ... stunning.

[Rlh04d]

So, you're telling me Fred actually had an off night last night and shouldn't have been considered for player of the game? Dang it. I guess I owe an apology email to *******.

Even his A:TO ratio was actually down over his starter average!

[WSUwatcher]

Please send to Mark Adams and Mitch Holthus immediately. More importantly, please send to Mr. *******..

Great post, News. What you've shown, although no doubt ******* would find a way to try to weasel around it, is that FVV is the most underrated overrated PG in college basketball.

[jdshock]

Not sure why/how I missed Chris Paul, but you're right that is a big omission. Same deal as with Jason Kidd - the stats don't mean you would pick one over the other, but when I look at Chris Paul's stats on the 3 primary metrics I laid out, Fred is still way ahead of him:

Chris Paul only had an A/TO ratio of 2.3 for his career, compared to Fred at well over 3x.

Chris Paul had 160 steals versus 171 turnovers and 163 fouls, so while he was very close he still didn't meet either metric.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/pla...est/chris-paul

This and few other instances kind of exemplify this type of analysis. Chris Paul was an incredible basketball player in college. You've created some framework for measuring point guards, and under that framework Chris Paul does not meet two of the prongs of the test. JH4P probably has a point about Kidd's production but that isn't a debate about whether Kidd is a better pg under your framework but a debate about whether your framework is the best.

Steph Curry is another pg that wasn't listed. He has more steals than TO's but I couldn't find personal fouls. His A/T ratio wasn't close to FVV's. Curry averaged a lot more points per game, though.

I think your test is a really interesting one. It is probably one of the best tests of a pure point guard, just like you described. I think maybe the "perfect" (for me?) metric is one that adds "points contributed to" or something. It would account for both assists and points. Under that framework, Kidd and Curry benefit a great deal.

With all of that said, one metric that hasn't been mentioned yet: wins. FVV is going to leave after four years with something like 130 wins. You just don't get better than that.

[ShockerFever]

Wow, that's actually right:

2014-15
@ Loyola 3-4


2013-14
@ SIU 5-5
@ IlSt 1-1
@ Loyola 10-10
@ Bradley 0-0


2012-13
@ Bradley 1-1
@ SIU 0-0
@ IlSt 0-0

He's also at 58% on FGs for his career in Illinois, 60% from 3, and 95.2% FTs. 10.9 PPG for his career, and 14.4 ppg as a starter (63.9% FGs, 58.3% 3's).

You can't even do that good on an Xbox.