Fred Van Vleet Is The Most Statistically Dominant Point Guard Of The Modern Era

[ShockTalk]

Another little tidbit. FVV has only 1.3 TO per game for his career so far. 18 of the 25 PGs on your list have DOUBLE, 2.6, that number for a career.

[Good News]

Done. Email for Luke Winn and Seth Davis is through SI and Ken Pomeroy is ratings@kenpom.com.

Thanks... hopefully that stands out in their email flow...

[jocoshock]

FVV today broke his game assists record with 10, scored 14 points, and had 6 rebounds. Not sure if he had any turnovers but he makes very few considering how often the ball is in his hands. He leads our team in steals. He does not have Cle finishing his nice passes with assists this Season but still often finds the right player at the right time with sweet passes. We are beyond blessed to have FVV on our team as our quarterback and he is an incredible leader for us.

Fred had two turnovers and I believe Sullentrop wrote that he tied his career high assists with 10.


He scored 14 points in No. 15 WSU’s 67-53 win over Loyola, again shooting perfectly in Gentile Arena. He handed out 10 assists to tie his career best, grabbed six rebounds and made three steals.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article6036240.html#storylink=cpy

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Awesome list. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

I do have to give you a hard time though. I love FVV's game, but Jason Kidd deserves any PG award based on college stats. His are just off the charts bonkers. Yes, he averaged 4 TOs per game, but my goodness, looking at the numbers as a whole, he was simply amazing.

	Pts/Gm	Ast/Gm	TO/Gm	Stl/Gm	Reb/Gm	Fouls/Gm
Jason Kidd	14.9	8.4	4.1	4.1	5.9	2.5
Fred VanVleet	8.3	4.0	1.3	1.5	3.1	1.5

To even be comparing Fred to Jason Kidd is an honor, and yes, we are blessed to have Fred and I do not look forward to getting used to watching Shocker basketball the season after Fred's eligibility expires.

[jocoshock]

Awesome list. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

I do have to give you a hard time though. I love FVV's game, but Jason Kidd deserves any PG award based on college stats. His are just off the charts bonkers. Yes, he averaged 4 TOs per game, but my goodness, looking at the numbers as a whole, he was simply amazing.

	Pts/Gm	Ast/Gm	TO/Gm	Stl/Gm	Reb/Gm	Fouls/Gm
Jason Kidd	14.9	8.4	4.1	4.1	5.9	2.5
Fred VanVleet	8.3	4.0	1.3	1.5	3.1	1.5

To even be comparing Fred to Jason Kidd is an honor, and yes, we are blessed to have Fred and I do not look forward to getting used to watching Shocker basketball the season after Fred's eligibility expires.

FVV has a 3:1 ast/to ratio compared to Kidd's 2:1 ratio. Kidd is an NBA HOF player. Can't take anything away from him. Let's see where Fred is at the end of his career.

[Good News]

Awesome list. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

I do have to give you a hard time though. I love FVV's game, but Jason Kidd deserves any PG award based on college stats. His are just off the charts bonkers. Yes, he averaged 4 TOs per game, but my goodness, looking at the numbers as a whole, he was simply amazing.

	Pts/Gm	Ast/Gm	TO/Gm	Stl/Gm	Reb/Gm	Fouls/Gm
Jason Kidd	14.9	8.4	4.1	4.1	5.9	2.5
Fred VanVleet	8.3	4.0	1.3	1.5	3.1	1.5

To even be comparing Fred to Jason Kidd is an honor, and yes, we are blessed to have Fred and I do not look forward to getting used to watching Shocker basketball the season after Fred's eligibility expires.

I hear you and agree - that's why I was careful to put the word "Statistically" in the title. Jason Kidd was an off-the-chart game changer (a former teammate/friend played pickup with him on several occasions and said his vision was mind boggling). Whenever discussions turn to greatest NBA PGs of all time, I'm definitely a J Kidd proponent.

BUT - he did turn the ball over 3 times as much as Fresh Van Vleet!

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Good News, I was also speaking "statistically" as well.

With an extra 7 pts/gm, 4 assists/gm, 2.5 steals/gm, and 3 rebounds/gm, I'll take Jason Kidd's statistics over Fred's any day and happily deal with the extra 2-3 turnovers and 1 foul.

Assist/TO ratios are only a small piece of the total statistical pie.

[Good News]

FVV has a 3:1 ast/to ratio compared to Kidd's 2:1 ratio. Kidd is an NBA HOF player. Can't take anything away from him. Let's see where Fred is at the end of his career.

True. And not to nitpick, JH4P, but the true apples to apples comparison is to exclude Fred's freshman year - those are per game stats and Fred was playing less than 20 minutes a games behind Malcolm his freshman year. Fred at 11.5 ppg, 5.5 apg, and 2.0 spg is a more relevant comp.

[Play Angry]

Kidd was also a starter for his only 2 years, so his per game stats were never diluted by an apprenticeship period. FVV's per game totals will see diminishing weight placed on his low freshman year totals as time goes by, but those numbers carry a lot of statistical mmph at the moment.

The most fair comparison would of course be on a per minute basis but that is way too much of a pain in the butt. Kidd's quantities would still be superior but significantly less so.

EDIT: @Good News: beat me to it.

[Shockeriffic]

I'd be curious to see where Damian Lillard and Bryan Mullins stack up. Mullins in particular would do well in any steals/not getting called for fouls statistic.

[1972Shocker]

Speaking of stats Fred was credited with a 5-5 FG shooting vs Loyola, but he did throw up a hail mary from 3/4's court as the 1st half ended. Perhaps he did not get the shot of before the buzzer. I would have to go back and look at that again.

[Good News]

I'd be curious to see where Damian Lillard and Bryan Mullins stack up. Mullins in particular would do well in any steals/not getting called for fouls statistic.

Mullins might be my favorite non-Shocker Valley player ever. Data is incomplete for him - no fouls at all - and he would have to have 0 turnovers his freshman and sophomore year to compete with FVV's ATO ratio.

Lillard isn't even close on the steals-fouls-turnovers comp, and his ATO ratio would have been the lowest on the entire comp list at 1.5

Both are awesome players though... which kind of ties back in to my original incredulity at Fred's stats.


http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/bryan-mullins-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/damian-lillard-1.html

[jocoshock]

@PrymeTyme4lyfe: LOVES ILLINOIS A JUNIOR NOW BUT HAS ONLY MISSED ONE FREE THROW IN THE STATE OF ILLINOIS SINCE BEING IN COLLEGE http://twitter.com/PrymeTyme4lyfe/st...204480/photo/1

One of you stat freaks can verify this??

[wsushox1]

Aaron Miles?

[jocoshock]

TONIGHT'S TOP PLAYERS
3. In another solid 67-53 win, Fred VanVleet notched 14 points, 10 assists and six rebounds against Loyola (IL). He worked in conjunction with Tekele Cotton to completely take over the game against the Ramblers.

@CBSSportsCBB: OH HEY, NIGHT COURT IS FINALLY PUBLISHED! Wisconsin, Duke, and Arizona all fall to unranked foes today: http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...-unranked-foes