Gregg Marshall letter to WSU students.

[SHOCKvalue]

I would like to take this opportunity to ask why the student section cannot master the simple task of standing and clapping in rhythm with the rest of the arena at the start of each half. Do they need a diagram or something? I mean, even if you don't know the tradition there are literally like 9000 people demonstrating. Every game. Twice a game. It's not hard.

If the clapping you're talking about goes along with band play (which it does most of the time) then I'm going to say the opposite is actually the problem, as the students are sitting right next to the band. One would hope the students can keep the beat when they're that close to its source.

If you are just talking about general unitized clapping, the arena is never actually clapping in unison. Sound delay and all.

[Mr. Pickle]

Students weren't too bad last night, but I am annoyed with them (us) for lots of reasons. Wish I had more time to put into organizing, planning, instructing, etc., and that half of them cared as much as they should. I agree with Jamar, our students most games hold back Koch arena from being even more special.

[Mr. Pickle]

Obviously I'm in the minority. Your post has a bunch of likes and mine has none. I just also disagree with you.

Give me screenshots from games at 50 programs (@shoxlax:, name 75 since you said it's an understatement) that don't have empty seats in their student section over Thanksgiving break.

If you're able to do that, address the second portion of my argument which is that we are historically a commuter campus. Show me a single other commuter campus that has similar student support at games.

Lay off the students. College basketball is about the students. When you forget that, you're just watching a worse version of the NBA. If it's purely about enjoying watching athletes in their prime playing basketball, watch the NBA. I stand by my point that we have a good student fanbase and it is getting better.

I have seen improvements in it recently, no doubt. But it is far from what it could/should be.

[Cdizzle]

If the clapping you're talking about goes along with band play (which it does most of the time) then I'm going to say the opposite is actually the problem, as the students are sitting right next to the band. One would hope the students can keep the beat when they're that close to its source.

If you are just talking about general unitized clapping, the arena is never actually clapping in unison. Sound delay and all.

I'm referring specifically to standing and clapping for defense to start the halves. Most of them can't do it. Or won't. And they are backed up by an even worse group who decide that is the best time to try to start a different cheer.

[kochHead]

Hey student section...

YOU STILL SUCK!! BALLS!!!

[SHOCKvalue]

I'm referring specifically to standing and clapping for defense to start the halves. Most of them can't do it. Or won't. And they are backed up by an even worse group who decide that is the best time to try to start a differen cheer.

Okay. Gotcha now.

[Mr. Pickle]

Hey student section...

YOU STILL SUCK!! BALLS!!!

Sat right next to those dummies last night. They were immediately removed.

[SHOCKvalue]

Sat right next to those dummies last night. They were immediately removed.

What? They do it every game, and have for as long as I can remember.

Not that I find it entertaining, or well-reflective of our University.

[Mr. Pickle]

What? They do it every game, and have for as long as I can remember.

Not that I find it entertaining, or well-reflective of our University.

Not every game. They used to last year some and two years ago, but haven't this year- specifically the "BALLS" part.

[kochHead]

What? They do it every game, and have for as long as I can remember.

Not that I find it entertaining, or well-reflective of our University.

The "balls" were cut a long time ago. If you are caught with "balls" coming out of your mouth at the game, you must leave.

[SHOCKvalue]

Well, that's a nice change.

The "balls" thing goes back a long time unfortunately. It was done when I was a student, which has more or less been a decade ago. I was embarrassed by it then as I am today.

[Kung Wu]

What? They do it every game, and have for as long as I can remember.

Not that I find it entertaining, or well-reflective of our University.

But, in the new political climate, I thought that this would no longer be considered offensive? I'm just out of the loop by a generation, so I can't keep up with the PC folks. So shoot straight with me, is sucking balls considered "cool" now with the young'uns, or isn't it?

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

Give me screenshots from games at 50 programs (@shoxlax, name 75 since you said it's an understatement) that don't have empty seats in their student section over Thanksgiving break.

First, you have to consider the number of tickets reserved for students. 1,000 is not that many. North Carolina reserves 6,000 seats!! Michigan State reserves 4,000. Michican 2,500. Wisconsin 2,100.

Oh, and check out Indiana which has 7,800 student seats!

Indiana has the largest student section in the country, seating 7,800 people, but has had trouble selling it out in recent years. When Tom Crean came to Indiana in 2008-09, the Hoosiers sold just 4,500 tickets, with that number rising to 7,632 this past season and now a sellout. http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspor...eason-tickets/

There are many schools who could have a half filled student section and would still outnumber WSU if the Shox had a body in every reserved student seat.

Regarding fall/winter breaks, WSU has empty spots in the student section year round with few exceptions. It isn't just breaks that concern me. Of those students who do go, the organization of chants, motions, etc. is less than what I see at a lot of schools around the country. The percentage of students looking fairly disinterested is higher than what I see at many other schools.

I do not know how to prove/disprove any of those points about enthusiasm, organization, etc. I just know that is my opinion based on personal (albeit imperfect and limited) observations.

If you're able to do that, address the second portion of my argument which is that we are historically a commuter campus. Show me a single other commuter campus that has similar student support at games.

For a commuter campus, yes, the student section is decent. Maybe even above average. However, I wasn't commenting on the commuter aspect, just the "on par with ANY major university's student section" comment. The Shox have a very high level basketball program. They also have a very high level crowd of season ticket holders. The student section is mediocre, and whether justified because of being a "commuter school" or not, it is the weak link in the equation.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I will say, on the other hand, it is 100 times better than when I was a student attending games at the Coliseum. I would regularly arrive during the national anthem, wait for it to finish, and then walk down and grab seats in the 2nd row. Yikes!

[jdshock]

First, you have to consider the number of tickets reserved for students. 1,000 is not that many. North Carolina reserves 6,000 seats!! Michigan State reserves 4,000. Michican 2,500. Wisconsin 2,100.

Oh, and check out Indiana which has 7,800 student seats!

There are many schools who could have a half filled student section and would still outnumber WSU if the Shox had a body in every reserved student seat.

Regarding fall/winter breaks, WSU has empty spots in the student section year round with few exceptions. It isn't just breaks that concern me. Of those students who do go, the organization of chants, motions, etc. is less than what I see at a lot of schools around the country. The percentage of students looking fairly disinterested is higher than what I see at many other schools.

I do not know how to prove/disprove any of those points about enthusiasm, organization, etc. I just know that is my opinion based on personal (albeit imperfect and limited) observations.

For a commuter campus, yes, the student section is decent. Maybe even above average. However, I wasn't commenting on the commuter aspect, just the "on par with ANY major university's student section" comment. The Shox have a very high level basketball program. They also have a very high level crowd of season ticket holders. The student section is mediocre, and whether justified because of being a "commuter school" or not, it is the weak link in the equation.

Fair enough. It could be that maybe we are just miscommunicating here. I'm glad that you are at least reasonable when viewing our student body through the appropriate lens: that of a commuter campus.

I do want to quickly point out some problems with your stats, though. UNC has one of the finest basketball traditions in the land. They certainly do have an excellent student showing at most basketball games. The rest of those schools are some of the largest schools in the country. We're talking three and four times the size of WSU. When I meant we have a comparable student showing at games, I meant proportionally to the enrollment.

Sure, I'm willing to concede that if you drop UNC's students into Koch that we would have a more raucous environment than our current students provide. Maybe that is all anyone on this forum is arguing. I guess my point is that you have to consider the word "for." We have an excellent student showing at games for being a commuter campus and for being a state school that has under 12k undergraduates.