MVC Post Season Awards

[1972Shocker]

No doubter with Doug McDermott winning POY but shouldn't Jackie Carmichael have received special recognition as the MMAOY?

[1972Shocker]

Apparently our defense is good because of our system not because of our players.

[garylee]

I'm sorry but Cle instead of Carl and no TC on D? These people are pretty clueless.
How does Cle get first team with 19 assists for the entire season, under five rebounds
per game and 46% shooting? They must only look at points per game. There is a
reason he doesn't start for us and I am pretty sure its lack of court vision and/or
determination to just score himself without looking for teammates. Gibbs overall
stats are MUCH better shooting almost 54% with 182 assists.

[GoShockers89]

I have no problem with these besides Tekele's snub from the All Defense Team.

[RomeoCrennel's Belly]

Jackie Carmichael gets on the All-MMA team.

[Shockeriffic]

I can see Cle' getting first team if the voters held Hall missing seven games against him and they thought they had to have a WSU player on first team. The real confusing things here are the inclusion of Anthony James over Seth Tuttle and snubbing Tekele on all defense. James scored 4 more points than Tuttle but he needed 93 more shots to get those 4 extra points. Seeing that James and Walt Lemon Jr. are on second team I guess the voters have a soft spot for 6 foot guards with a 1:1 assist to turnover ratio.

[1972Shocker]

I'm sorry but Cle instead of Carl and no TC on D? These people are pretty clueless.
How does Cle get first team with 19 assists for the entire season, under five rebounds
per game and 46% shooting? They must only look at points per game. There is a
reason he doesn't start for us and I am pretty sure its lack of court vision and/or
determination to just score himself without looking for teammates. Gibbs overall
stats are MUCH better shooting almost 54% with 182 assists.

Why are you comparing Cle and Gibbs especially for assists. Cle's primary responsibility was as a scorer and rebounder just as Carl was. Carl only had 17 assists on the year. Nick only had 10. Ehimen had 8. OTOH, Gibbs primary role for CU is to distribute the ball to their many scorers. One of his primary jobs was to get the ball to McDermott, Wragge, Echineque, etc. BTW Cle averaged 5.2 rebounds per game in all games. I assume when 3G want assists to be Cle's focus he will put him at the point or at the 2 and tell him to focus on getting the ball to his teammates.

Don't give me wrong I love a great assist guy. That's just not Cle's role. Probably the best comparison for Cle is Doug McDermott and of course Cle will fall short in most offensive categories. As far as assists go McDermott averaged 2.25 assists per 40 minutes and Cle averaged 1 assist per 40 minutes (not taking into account Creighton is a more profiic scoring team than the Shocks). OTOH McDermott had a total of 2 blocks and 7 steals in 977 minutes. Cle had 26 blocks and 26 steals in 773 minutes. McDermott is clearly a better offensive player than Cle. Cle is clearly a bette defender than McDermott. Both are decent rebounders.

Does Cle belong on the 1st team. Perhaps not, I probably would have chosen Carl or Malcolm ahead of Cle. Does Gibbs belong on the 1st team ahead of Cle. I don't think so. Gibbs is a nice role player who understood his role and I don't have much of a problem with him being HM, although I think Tekele Cotton is a better all-around player than Gibbs.

[ShockTalk]

Despite WSU being the Defensive Team of the year and not having a single player recognized on the Defensive individual team, we did have players take 5 spots. That was the most of any team and UNI, taking 3rd in the Valley, had only 1 spot along with IN St.

[garylee]

I guess its just my own opinion that first team players should be team players. To only
have 19 assists means several things to me. First, it has to have a negative impact on the
teams offensive chemistry. Second, it probably means he doesn't see the court well and
recognize offensive opportunities for his tammates. Third, it could mean the only stats he
is interested in are his own. All three are bad for the team which would disqualify him from
my vote. Also, keep in mind, as a very good INDIVIDUAL offensive player he will see
some double teaming which should present him with assist opportunities if he is looking.

[CBB_Fan]

Personally, there isn't a guard in the MVC I would take for defense over Cotton. And on the same note, I don't think I would take Carmichael or Cyclops over Orukpe for defense, though both are more complete players. Heck, Hall is one of the best defensive bigs in the leagues.

To not have any of those players on the All-Defensive team is silly. At least put Cotton, who is the only 6'2", 200lb guard in the country that is regularly assigned to guard 6'8" guys of McDermott's caliber. Unfortunately, people must have looked solely at steals per game when they made that list instead of overall defensive ability. Oh well, we get Cotton for two more years to prove them wrong.

[jdshock]

I guess its just my own opinion that first team players should be team players. To only
have 19 assists means several things to me. First, it has to have a negative impact on the
teams offensive chemistry. Second, it probably means he doesn't see the court well and
recognize offensive opportunities for his tammates. Third, it could mean the only stats he
is interested in are his own. All three are bad for the team which would disqualify him from
my vote. Also, keep in mind, as a very good INDIVIDUAL offensive player he will see
some double teaming which should present him with assist opportunities if he is looking.

Nothing bothers me more on this board than people that bash our own players. We have never gotten the sense that coach was mad at Early for a lack of assists. Early plays starter like minutes and is obviously one of the best players on our team. I am with everyone else that says Hall and Armstead could also have taken that spot, but please do not criticize one of our players for winning an award. You criticize so many of our players and hype up White all the time. White is a great player and I would never put him down, but Early is truly something special and people around the league all obviously agree.

[pinstripers]

Cle doesn't start, makes first team all-valley, but does not win 6th man? WTF?

[1972Shocker]

I guess its just my own opinion that first team players should be team players. To only
have 19 assists means several things to me. First, it has to have a negative impact on the
teams offensive chemistry. Second, it probably means he doesn't see the court well and
recognize offensive opportunities for his tammates. Third, it could mean the only stats he
is interested in are his own. All three are bad for the team which would disqualify him from
my vote. Also, keep in mind, as a very good INDIVIDUAL offensive player he will see
some double teaming which should present him with assist opportunities if he is looking.

Being a good team player can be measured in more ways than just how many assists you have. It is understanding your role and what the coaches want your role to be. If your role is getting assists that's fine. If your role is to score and rebound but all you want to do is pass the ball you are not being a good teammate. Besides an assist always, always involves at least two people, usually more and often all 5 players on the court. One who makes the pass, one whom makes the basket and many times 3 other guys who run the play and make the sceens, etc. that allow the pass to made and the shooter to be open. The guy who makes the assist is not the only team player. This BS and love affair with Gibbs is growing tiresome. I challenge you to call in to Coach Marshall's radio show and make the case to him the Cle is not a team player because he doesn't have very many assists. I'll hang up and listen!

[1979Shocker]

Cle doesn't start, makes first team all-valley, but does not win 6th man? WTF?

He wasn't eligible for 6th man. You have to start less than 25% of your team's games.

[garylee]

Nothing bothers me more on this board than people that bash our own players. We have never gotten the sense that coach was mad at Early for a lack of assists. Early plays starter like minutes and is obviously one of the best players on our team. I am with everyone else that says Hall and Armstead could also have taken that spot, but please do not criticize one of our players for winning an award. You criticize so many of our players and hype up White all the time. White is a great player and I would never put him down, but Early is truly something special and people around the league all obviously agree.

First let me quickly apologize if I offended anyone, my intent is not to bash any player,coach, the team
or fan. Explaining an intangible isn't easy. Cle IS a very talented offensive player and has been a
great asset/addition to the team. Having said that, like a coach, I tend to grade out players by game
and for the season. I would give Cle a B+ for shooting ability, a C for rebounding, a C for defense, an
F for assists, and a D for BBIQ and that just doesn't add up to a complete player for me and I think
explains why he doesn't start. Now, I really really hope that next season he blossoms into a more
complete player because if he does he has what it takes to carry us to an even higher level.