Shockers at Redbirds Game Thread

[jdmee]

I do have two questions for those with additional rules experience. Are flagrant fouls like technical fouls in that the shooting team can choose the FT shooter? I had it in my mind that a flagrant foul was still fouling a specific player, just with more severity. Perhaps I am wrong. If not, we did catch a small break in that Tekele, not Cle should have shot the FTs.

Second. Given that play transpired that could not be undone, a foul was called and ISU shot FTs, should we not have had to inbound the ball from the other end of the floor?

I believe the flagrant foul is treated like a technical foul and anybody on the floor can shoot it.

The ball is inbounds at a location close to where the foul happened.

[Shockeriffic]

Crazy. Muller is a crap coach who is 7-8 in league play with arguably the most talented roster. He'll be jobless in t-minus 3 seasons.

It's a very talented roster that I would not want to coach. Carmichael, Brown and Allen are shoot first players. They have no real point guard. Is anyone surprised that they developed chemistry problems in the middle of the season?

[1972Shocker]

I get the feeling that IlSU will be better next year when Carmichael, Brown and Wilkins are gone. Am I crazy?

Perhaps not crazy. However, Carmichael is a hell of a good player and good athlete. Close to averaging a double-double (I believe he is in MVC play). Brown can be as good as anyone in the league offensively when he is cooking. Wilkins is a decent player that allows ILS to match up physically with anyone in the Valley including the Shocks.

I don't really know what ILS has waiting in the wings or coming into the program but one of their issues as a team this year is that they don't seem to go more than about 7 deep.

OTOH, they will be in the 2nd year of Coach Muller's tenure and he has done a good job righting the ship in Valley play after their terrible start. Of course, that is made easier by the fact that they have as good of personnel as anyone in the Valley at least through their top 7 players.

Bottom line, I think next year will be a challenge for ILS to match the quality of this year's team.

[Shockeriffic]

You need to get that "feeling" checked, and checked fast because that's batshit crazy.

They finished 9-9 last year and look headed for that again. That's not a terribly high bar to have to clear. I guess the Missouri St. post Weems season is more likely. I'm getting that feeling check immediately.

[shock-it-to-me]

Last 5 seconds of the game isn't getting much talk or coverage. Not sure the Shocks did a great job there. ILS got an absolutely great look that could have won the game for them. One thing ILS fans can not argue is that the flagrant foul on Carmichael cost them any chance to win the game. I need to maybe look at the replays again, but in thinking about that play seems to me Carmichael, one of the better mid-range shooters in the Valley could have pulled up for pretty much uncontested 14-15 jumper on that play but instead made the decision to plow right into Carl who had clearly established position in the lane. Of course, ILS had been getting every bull their way to the rim call in the game so it could be Carmichael thought he could just draw another foul in doing the same thing and win the game at the line. Perhaps his second bad decision in the final minute of play.

really, really bad D by EO. Chased Charmichael out to half court and then let him drive right past him. Carl had great position, but I actually think the no call was the correct call at the end, it didn't look like there was actually that much contact.

[garylee]

my two cents worth on the kicking incident. i don't know anything about carmichael,
therefore, i'd like to take the high road and give him the benefit of the doubt whether it
was intentional or not. he DID kick cotton but i think it could have been more of an
uncontrolable reflex rather than intentional, but even if it was a reflex i think the refs HAD to
call it a flagrant foul i also believe there is a silent majority of basically good isu fans just
as there is at wsu

[tw805]

It is utterly impossible to watch that video and think, "Well that seems like an unfortunate accident." If you have a reflex disorder that causes your leg to push outward when coming down from jumping, as opposed to planting down beneath you like a normal human being, you are a total spaz. But even then, you're unlikely to be looking at the guy you're kicking as a matter of happenstance. ISU fans that are calling this an "accident" should "accidentally" be hit with baseball bats.

[WuDrWu]

They finished 9-9 last year and look headed for that again. That's not a terribly high bar to have to clear. I guess the Missouri St. post Weems season is more likely. I'm getting that feeling check immediately.

I see ISU in a light differently than their actual record....upon further review, 10-8 doesn't seem out of the question, but they have some severe deficiencies size wise in the post that will have to be addressed, successfully, for them to be even marginally better. Next year top to bottom sure looks like a down year for the Valley.

EXCEPT for us. I am taking a cold view of next season as it relates to the Valley and WSU. I expect a very, very large win total from the Shockers in 13-14.

[tw805]

They will probably call a foul on Tekele for attacking Carmichael's foot with his face.

This is turning out to be prescient. The ISU fans are now complaining that Cotton was running toward Carmichael, and his face got in the way of Carmichael's mid-air ballet. You can't make this stuff up. These are the dumbest fans in the Valley.

[ShockerPrez]

I see ISU in a light differently than their actual record....upon further review, 10-8 doesn't seem out of the question, but they have some severe deficiencies size wise in the post that will have to be addressed, successfully, for them to be even marginally better. Next year top to bottom sure looks like a down year for the Valley.

EXCEPT for us. I am taking a cold view of next season as it relates to the Valley and WSU. I expect a very, very large win total from the Shockers in 13-14.

Boy, I agree. shox will be very tough next year. Early will clean up his game and be awesome, me thinks.

Give us Baker and Wessel with FVV.

[ShockerPrez]

Carmichael is lucky his foot didnt hit tekeles jaw. Jackie would have a broken foot.

[proshox]

really, really bad D by EO. Chased Charmichael out to half court and then let him drive right past him. Carl had great position, but I actually think the no call was the correct call at the end, it didn't look like there was actually that much contact.

They were trying to get the ball to Brown. WSU defended that part well. EO got beat by a better athlete, but the help defense did it's job and nobody else got open. Overall, I thought we defended it well. Sometimes the better athlete makes a play (in this case JC got the best of EO with no final positive result).

[rrshock]

This is turning out to be prescient. The ISU fans are now complaining that Cotton was running toward Carmichael, and his face got in the way of Carmichael's mid-air ballet. You can't make this stuff up. These are the dumbest fans in the Valley.

What? Running towards it? Who in their right mind runs into a flying karate kick?

[rrshock]

Boy, I agree. shox will be very tough next year. Early will clean up his game and be awesome, me thinks.

Give us Baker and Wessel with FVV.

And Coleby. And Andrew Wiggins would also be a nice addition.

[The Mad Hatter]

This is turning out to be prescient. The ISU fans are now complaining that Cotton was running toward Carmichael, and his face got in the way of Carmichael's mid-air ballet. You can't make this stuff up. These are the dumbest fans in the Valley.

They are also saying that it is fine to kung fu kick because Jackie does it a lot when guys aren't around. With their logic, maybe Marshall should just tell our players to randomly punch the air and when one of those punches eventually connects with the face of a ISU player, we can use Redbird Logic (patent pending) to say:

A. Our guys always make punching motions. Clearly no intent.
B. The Illinois State player was running into the punch. Must be his fault.