Deb Farris: WSU To Look into Bringing Football Back in Next 3-4 Years

[ShockTalk]

Signman: It's all about the money. I don't want WSU basketball, baseball, volleyball, etc. to suffer in order to bring back football, I don't want to lose any current men's sports and I don't want to see a marginal WSU football program. A strong (FBS) football program would help WSU by providing providing more scholarships for men and women, give WSU to possibility of leaving the MVC and possibly helping increase enrollment. In order to do it right, WSU needs a LOT of money upfront. Without this initial support, I am opposed to bringing back football.

Let me know how you feel about it after a 1 or 2 MVC schools (Ill St, UNI, MSU) leave to go to a better football conference and/or CU jumps to the A-10, but the A-10 thinks we're just a little too far away. Let's see how that affects the sport programs when the Valley tries to recover with some second tier schools (think Evansville or worse).

[ABC]

If WSU has finance issues with football, how in the world would UNI, MSU or Ill State start Div 1 football? It wasn't that long ago that UNI had significant athletic department budget cuts.

[EB 22]

I think many people are so hung up on the fact of having a football team that won't win games. Guaranteed that will happen for us. We may not be super successful in our win column right off the bat.

That's the risk we take. Just like the risk we take with spending a lot of money on basketball.

[SB Shock]

Let me know how you feel about it after a 1 or 2 MVC schools (Ill St, UNI, MSU) leave to go to a better football conference and/or CU jumps to the A-10, but the A-10 thinks we're just a little too far away. Let's see how that affects the sport programs when the Valley tries to recover with some second tier schools (think Evansville or worse).

what IF no team leaves and WSU starts up a money-pit football program that sucks all the money away from the successful program...then where will WSU be?

[DoubleJayAlum]

Let me know how you feel about it after a 1 or 2 MVC schools (Ill St, UNI, MSU) leave to go to a better football conference and/or CU jumps to the A-10, but the A-10 thinks we're just a little too far away. Let's see how that affects the sport programs when the Valley tries to recover with some second tier schools (think Evansville or worse).

I honestly don't think that is a problem at the moment. I don't think anybody is going anywhere.

[SubGod22]

I honestly don't think that is a problem at the moment. I don't think anybody is going anywhere.

I think within the next 5-10 years that ISU will be gone. I hear fans of CUSA and the Belt mention MSU as a potential future addition if things get shaken up. MAC fans seem to be ok with UNI if the join for everything and many believe that UNI could immediately compete in the top of that conference with where they stand now. Additional scholarships and exposure of being an FBS conference could have them competing for MAC championships. The MAC and the B1G also have a good relationship which would lead to some nice games for them there with increased pay.

I'm not saying someone is leaving in the next year or two, but I won't be surprised at all if 2 or 3 schools are gone by 2020. Hopefully we'll have put a program on the field by then and would potentially open up options for our future.

[Aargh]

I have a few questions specifically for:

Aargh
Spanglerfan316
KraRam

and others....you know who you are.

It is clear that you love our Shockers!

But,

You seem to have a great deal of apprehension about football. Or, are you just a pessimist about all things? Which is it? I have some very close friends BTW that think like you. Have you just been beaten down by the status quo like they have been? Has Jim Jones sold you on the Kool-Aid? Do you fear failure and defeat so much that you cannot act? Have the naysayers that have been in charge fed you so much of the "Party Line" that you cannot see the horizon? That you don't have a vision? Can you not see a better life? Admittedly I am Don Quixote and this is the time to fight. Do you think Gregg Marshall would have achieved what he has with that kind of negative outlook about anything?

What a great way to phrase your questions to make the people you are questioning look like jacka$$es just by the wording of your questions. I don't feel it is necessary to respond to questions that are worded in a way that indicates any answer will be ridiculed an unacceptable, but I'll tke a shot.

I've "run the numbers" on bringing FB back to WSU. I'm not going to repeat the 20 hours or so I spent on looking at it from the standpoint of finances. By the time I was half-way through creating a projection, it was obvious that the dollars weren't going to work without unbelievable sums of money donated BEFORE putting a team on the field.

There wouldn't be ny bowl money or TV money in the early years, but that doesn't reduce expenses in those years, if you are trying to bu8ild a competitive D1 FBS tem. If that's not your goal, then you can reduce expenses. Without bowl money or TV money, the breakeven point was about 50,000 people in the stands at an average net of $40 per person per game.

From a business standpoint, FB at WSU is potentially suicidal for the entire athletic department. The call for bringing FB back has been going on for over 20 years. Hank Schictle was one of the most loved Shocker players ever and he spear headed the first drive to bring FB back. He couldn't raise squat in pledges. People have been trying this for 20 years and no one is putting up or hinting at putting up any money.

Maybe Bardo can make another push for some huge dollars, but is tapping the alumni and community resource hard and heavy and spending every penny you can squeeze out of that group on FB in the best interests of WSU? That money could have been spent on academics and existing sports. Using a huge chunk of the available resource for FB, where there is exposure to failure, is not a prudent use of that resource.

[SubGod22]

what IF no team leaves and WSU starts up a money-pit football program that sucks all the money away from the successful program...then where will WSU be?

What if it's extremely successful and we end up in the MWC or CUSA or somehow find a way into some other top conference? Then there's more money for all sports as well as increased enrollment and exposure for the University. What if games go both ways.

What if we're a middle of the road type of programs? That will still help enrollment and increase the alumni base as well as potentially open up doors to better conferences.

If you're not willing to take on any risk, fine. But don't be complaining when we're stuck in this conference and it only gets worse. Even with the current cast of characters, we're not going to elevate outselves anymore than we already are. The poor will continue to do what they do and the few of us willing to invest will do what we do. But our RPI/SOS will be pulled down and hurt at large chances. Not to mention the lack of RPI100 programs we have. We can pretty much rely on us and CU and that's it. ISU may be moving there. UNI could from time to time. Maybe most of the time. But I don't see them consistently being a Top50 type which is even more important. Our poor conference makes the noncon that much more important and the margin for error is slim.

And what if MSU, UNI and ISU all three end up elsewhere? Even if we still have CU, we're replacing those three schools with what? Western Illinois? UMKC? Little Rock? IUPUI? The Dakotas? Washburn?

[DoubleJayAlum]

I think within the next 5-10 years that ISU will be gone. I hear fans of CUSA and the Belt mention MSU as a potential future addition if things get shaken up. MAC fans seem to be ok with UNI if the join for everything and many believe that UNI could immediately compete in the top of that conference with where they stand now. Additional scholarships and exposure of being an FBS conference could have them competing for MAC championships. The MAC and the B1G also have a good relationship which would lead to some nice games for them there with increased pay.

I'm not saying someone is leaving in the next year or two, but I won't be surprised at all if 2 or 3 schools are gone by 2020. Hopefully we'll have put a program on the field by then and would potentially open up options for our future.

I understand. But even the UNI AD went out of his way to say that he doesn't want to do anything to jeopardize their place in the MVC. The MAC would be a big step down for hoops.

Taking it one step further, how much of a loss would UNI really be to the conference? They are broke, have no baseball and attract approximately 4,000 people to home basketball games for a team that just a few years ago knocked off #1 seed Kansas and went to the Sweet Sixteen. Presumably, that program is at the best it is ever going to get IMO. I can't see anything happening to substantially spike attendance if a sweet 16 can't do it.... If UNI leaves, I think we can find other schools similarly situated to replace them.

MSU and SIU are mega broke and aren't going anywhere anytime soon. The only legitimate threat IMO would be Illinois St....

[SubGod22]

I understand. But even the UNI AD went out of his way to say that he doesn't want to do anything to jeopardize their place in the MVC. The MAC would be a big step down for hoops.

Taking it one step further, how much of a loss would UNI really be to the conference? They are broke, have no baseball and attract approximately 4,000 people to home basketball games for a team that just a few years ago knocked off #1 seed Kansas and went to the Sweet Sixteen. Presumably, that program is at the best it is ever going to get IMO. I can't see anything happening to substantially spike attendance if a sweet 16 can't do it.... If UNI leaves, I think we can find other schools similarly situated to replace them.

MSU and SIU are mega broke and aren't going anywhere anytime soon. The only legitimate threat IMO would be Illinois St....

I'm no fan of UNI, but they've been a program that hasn't killed the Valley in basketball. I don't think we would replace them with an equal or better performer. I do think there may be some options out there that would work well, but not sure the Valley would do it.

I don't see MSU being a major threat to leave due to their financial situation, but just reporting that I've heard a number of fans in CUSA talk about them for the future. Maybe they get the money figured out and become more likely. I don't know.

Unless the MVC is willing to stretch the footprint to add/replace, our options are limited and poor. Personally, I'd rather WSU open up its options by taking the risk and bringing football back. It's better than waiting on the Valley to improve in some form.

[Aargh]

You don't get invited to join a conference if you dilute the earnings of that conference. Unless WSU fields a team that demonstrates they can earn some bowl money and provide some TV market share, WSU ends up either in FCS hell, or as an independent. To put a winning team on the field, you have to spend money l;ike winning teams do. The problem is that you have to do that without the built-in revenue streams those teams have.

I looked at the finances of KU nd KSU and looked at the FB numbers at those programs. It's not too hard to look at the bottom lines from FB, then subtract the money KU and KSU get from the B12. Both FB programs are hemorrhaging huge dollars if they did not have the B12 revenue stream. Is WSU supposed to somehow miraculously put a winning team on the field without matching the coaching salaries and recruiting budgets of other schools in the area? As a startup, WSU would probably have to spend MORE than those programs, just to get to the same level of coaching and recruits those programs can attract. If WSU ended up with a FB team like KU has, no conference in the nation would touch us with a stick.

Then there's scheduling. Who do you schedule that will put even 20K at the games? You're likely to hae the same problem BB has with scheduling. Established programs aren't likely to show up in Wichita. OOC would likely be schools like Texas State, North Texas, or East Carolina. Those aren't big draws. Then there would be the MVFC games, where you'd be able to determine the game time temperature by counting the cricket chirps you'd be able to hear from anywhere in the stands.

Those big attendance figures that have been trotted out. Were you around WSU when that happened? I was. I couldn't go to those games because Ted Bredehoft sold the stadium out to businesses who more or less gave those tickets to their employees. There were a couple of well-attended games where the people in the stands actually paid for their tickets, but in the games where people had to actually buy their tickets, 8 - 12 K was much more common than 15K+.

I am very pro-football. I've sat through games at WSU when it was 30 degrees, there was a 30 mph wind and it was raining. My major was in business, not political science. The "politics" of having FB at WSU are all rah-rah, let's go, jump on the bandwagon, look out world - here we come. The business of FB at WSU appears to be about as wise as buying stock in Enron - today.

[SpanglerFan316]

Let me know how you feel about it after a 1 or 2 MVC schools (Ill St, UNI, MSU) leave to go to a better football conference and/or CU jumps to the A-10, but the A-10 thinks we're just a little too far away. Let's see how that affects the sport programs when the Valley tries to recover with some second tier schools (think Evansville or worse).

I was asked my opinion and gave it. I'm not sure if you are criticizing my opinion but my belief is that WSU cannot bankrupt athletics in order to restart football; it doesn't matter what Ill. St., UNI or MSU do. Butler made it to the national championship game (twice) while a member of the Horizon conference; if there is a question in your comment "Let's see how that affects the sport programs when the Valley tries to recover with some second tier schools (think Evansville or worse)", then please ask it in a more direct manner.

[Dave Stalwart]

Well, there you have it. WSU will never have a football team...

I wonder why Bardo wants to look at it again down the road. That's really weird. I guess we hired someone really stupid. He probably doesn't know as much about the costs involved and the ways to get it accomplished than us when he says something like he will look at after a few years and see. We should probably let him know not to waste his time.

Wish we could get that one back, huh?

[SpanglerFan316]

Well, there you have it. WSU will never have a football team...

Ok then; case closed until somebody drops a ****load of money on WSU athletics. Let's close this thread.

[Aargh]

Well, there you have it. WSU will never have a football team...

I wonder why Bardo wants to look at it again down the road. That's really weird. I guess we hired someone really stupid. He probably doesn't know as much about the costs involved and the ways to get it accomplished than us when he says something like he will look at after a few years and see. We should probably let him know not to waste his time.

Wish we could get that one back, huh?

You must have missed the part where it was revealed that Deb Farris asked Bardo if he would consider looking at FB and his answer was (approximately) "We'll look at FB after some other priorities re taken care of." That's all he said. The rest of what has been reported was - shall we say "improvised".

Bardo would have to be a complete idiot to say, "No, I'm never going to look at FB" after being on campus a month. I'm more than confident that Beggs took a good, hard look at FB - once - and determined there was no reason to even discuss the topic ever again.

Bardo made a non-statement that Deb Farris made into a staatement. Who knows, maybe "Make the parking spaces wider" is among "some other priorities". Maybe "clean up the neighborhood and rid it of crime" is among "some other priorities".

There are a tremendous number of obstacles to raising enrollment. FB is WAY down the list. Out of town parents are reluctant to send their kids to Wichita because of the "big city" image and the "crime" image. They are particularly reluctant to send their kids to 17th and Hillside. Old Town considering banning 18 year olds from drinking establishments and all the gunfire down there late at night isn't helping that image a bit and may have left permanent damage on WSU's ability to attract students from outlying communities. Wichita kids tend to want to get out of town after HS, and if their families can afford it, most of them will do that. The engineering and business majors will stick around, but that's not a large market share of HS grads.

Bardo's comment wasn't even a molehill. Deb Farris turned it into mountain, and ShockerNet turned it into Mt. Everest.