Deb Farris: WSU To Look into Bringing Football Back in Next 3-4 Years

[SubGod22]

Three to five years seems to be about the time frame at other recent football startups. I can deal with that.

[MadDog]

If its so impossible, how does Charlotte go from no team at all directly to CUSA? UTSA i think is doing the same with having a team only for 3 or 4 years. All the rest of our sports are CUSA or better quality right now. Why are we resigned to being in a bad conference for decades to come?

[1972Shocker]

If its so impossible, how does Charlotte go from no team at all directly to CUSA? UTSA i think is doing the same with having a team only for 3 or 4 years. All the rest of our sports are CUSA or better quality right now. Why are we resigned to being in a bad conference for decades to come?

If it is so easy why don't we have football. One huge difference between Charlotte and UTSA vs Wichita is the population density. Now whether or not that is the reason or one of the reasons they have been able to do it I can't really say. Granted North Carolina has generally been considered a basketball state. However, we clearly know what sport is King in Texas. A lot of high tech money and big corporations in Charlotte. A lot of oil money in Texas. Charles Koch is a big fish in Wichita but his heart belongs mostly to George Mason University (or it has in the past). The I-35 corridor is pretty much solid city anymore from Denton down through San Antonio. They would seem to have something going on that we don't.

[The Mad Hatter]

If it is so easy why don't we have football. One huge difference between Charlotte and UTSA vs Wichita is the population density. Now whether or not that is the reason or one of the reasons they have been able to do it I can't really say. Granted North Carolina has generally been considered a basketball state. However, we clearly know what sport is King in Texas. A lot of high tech money and big corporations in Charlotte. A lot of oil money in Texas. Charles Koch is a big fish in Wichita but his heart belongs mostly to George Mason University (or it has in the past). The I-35 corridor is pretty much solid city anymore from Denton down through San Antonio. They would seem to have something going on that we don't.

And the big thing to take out of that, not just for football but for all conference realignment issues, is that the media market a school has the potential to deliver (or at least present an entry point into) for a conference is a large factor about what conferences look for in adding new members.

Charlotte, NC is the #25 media market in the country
San Antonio, TX is the #36 media market in the country
Wichita - Hutchinson, KS is the #67 media market in the country

http://www.tvjobs.com/cgi-bin/markets/market2.cgi

Setting aside any questions of whether that media market causes you to have a larger donor base, those numbers impact conferences when negotiating media rights, so those 31 slots between UTSA and WSU make a difference on who gets an invite to the table even if both had the same internal resources.

[Kung Wu]

And the big thing to take out of that, not just for football but for all conference realignment issues, is that the media market a school has the potential to deliver (or at least present an entry point into) for a conference is a large factor about what conferences look for in adding new members.

Charlotte, NC is the #25 media market in the country
San Antonio, TX is the #36 media market in the country
Wichita - Hutchinson, KS is the #67 media market in the country

http://www.tvjobs.com/cgi-bin/markets/market2.cgi

Setting aside any questions of whether that media market causes you to have a larger donor base, those numbers impact conferences when negotiating media rights, so those 31 slots between UTSA and WSU make a difference on who gets an invite to the table even if both had the same internal resources.

That's an interesting perspective.

[shox1989]

And the big thing to take out of that, not just for football but for all conference realignment issues, is that the media market a school has the potential to deliver (or at least present an entry point into) for a conference is a large factor about what conferences look for in adding new members.

Charlotte, NC is the #25 media market in the country
San Antonio, TX is the #36 media market in the country
Wichita - Hutchinson, KS is the #67 media market in the country

http://www.tvjobs.com/cgi-bin/markets/market2.cgi

Setting aside any questions of whether that media market causes you to have a larger donor base, those numbers impact conferences when negotiating media rights, so those 31 slots between UTSA and WSU make a difference on who gets an invite to the table even if both had the same internal resources.

There are schools in much smaller TV markets that have added FBS football lately. Two that come to mind are Troy (in the metropolis of Troy, AL) and Texas State (in the metopolis of San Marcos, TX).

Troy has been FBS for awhile and I believe that Texas St is going FBS next year. Texas St is one of those that I believe went FBS in a very short amount of time.

I think Royal's 7 point plan is right on the money. But I also believe that if we want to make sure football doesn't hurt the other sports, we really need to have the goal of getting to FBS quickly.

FCS schools lose money, FBS schools make money or at least break even. Very few FBS schools lose money on football even most of those in conferences like the MAC, Sun Belt and WAC tend to break even or make a little bit.

[1972Shocker]

Texas State University, formerly Southwest Texas State I believe, announced enrollment of 34,229 students for the fall 2012 semester.

San Marcus sits on the I-35 corridor about halfway between Austin and San Antonio. I suppose the North side of San Marcus is a suburb of Austin and the South side is a suburb of San Antonio.

[MadDog]

I see Boise is #112 on the list. I wonder how they ever pulled it off....

[RoyalShock]

I see Boise is #112 on the list. I wonder how they ever pulled it off....

How many students? How many other FBS programs in Idaho?

[The Mad Hatter]

I see Boise is #112 on the list. I wonder how they ever pulled it off....

Let me be clear, media market is not a final factor in conference affiliation. A team can overcome a small media market the stellar success on the field. Why? Because if you win enough, from a conference perspective your media market has expanded once you have had so much on the field success that you are nationally known. A national brand is good for a conference for the same reasons that a large media market is good.

So the two basic routes to entry into a strong conference are delivering a large media market or having consistent success on the national stage that either makes up for having a small local market or adds to a large local market by delivering more interest that conferences can leverage come media rights negotiation time. In addition, some schools have less competition within their state for dominance (e.g. Nebraska) so that even if their local market is technically small, they are understood to deliver the entire state.

Keep in mind that in spite of Troy beating an SEC team on the road (Miss. State) their very first year of FBS in 2001, it still wasn't until 2004 that they were admitted into the Sunbelt (which itself is hardly the Holy Grail of conference affiliation - I doubt anyone is clamoring for football at WSU on the basis that we might have a shot at the Sunbelt). If WSU manage to replicate the kind of consistent winning that Boise State has a build a national football brand, then a mediocre-size media market would probably not matter too much to prospective conferences. But make not mistake, in any conference realignment scenario, WSU is starting at a disadvantage to schools in top-25 media markets and will need the kind of consistent success that builds national recognition to overcome that disadvantage.

[1972Shocker]

How many students? How many other FBS programs in Idaho?

I think Boise State is around 20K students. University of Idaho, at around 11K student plays FBS footall in the WAC. Idaho State, with around 14K students plays FCS football in the Big Sky Conference.

[MadDog]

My point was that Boise arose from a small market (Idaho pop 1.5 mill) an insignificant conference (WAC) and no national brand to a top 15 program. We have almost twice the population and a good brand in every sport we play except womens bball. Im not sure why its impossible for us, yet other schools can pull it off. I believe if we "hold pat", we will end up like Boeing WIchita in about 8 more years. Conference realignment is going to blow us up and we are content to sit back and watch it happen as we convince ourselves we have no options to control our own destiny.

[shockmonster]

I'm sure Deb Farris wishes this thread would close; it only makes her look bad.

She has been a Shocker fan. I don't know if she still does, but she used to have Basketball season tickets.

[shox1989]

Okay if we want to talk TV markets I looked up the TV markets for several FBS teams and found many in smaller, even much smaller markets than Wichita. I am sure there are many more, I just did a quick review:

Lousiana-Monroe, Monroe, LA TV market #137
Univ. of Nevada, Reno, NV TV market #108
Colorado St., Colorado Springs, CO TV market #90
UTEP & New Mexico St., El Paso TV market #91 (2 FBS teams share the #91 TV market!)
Bowling Green U, Bowling Green OH TV market #182
Troy, Dothan TV market #169
Univ. of Hawaii, Honolulu TV market #71
Southern Mississippi, Hattiesburg-Laurel, MS TV Market #167
Wyoming, Laramie-Cheyenne-Scottsbluff TV market #195
North Texas St, Wichita Falls Tv market?#142
Fresno St, Fresno Tv market, #55 (but every local channel is a UHF channel- an all UHF market)

Nielsen lists Wichita at #67 for 2012, we were #68 for 2011.

http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/corporate/us/en/public factsheets/tv/nielsen-2012-local-DMA-TV-penetration.pdf

[1972Shocker]

We have almost twice the population and a good brand in every sport we play except womens bball.

Just to be fair to our women's basketball team you might want to throw the softball team in there as an exception as well.