Bracketology

[shoxtop]

Surprised to see the valley with three teams in during the off-season. Not surprised, however, that we are not one of them.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...gy/_/year/2013

[Capitol Shock II]

Horse manure.

[SubGod22]

I believe that we'll get 3 and possibly 4 in. I don't see a fall from 5 to 11 between the first two either. If there are only three, I expect UNI to be the ones on the outside looking in.

[WuDrWu]

Too many people are drinking the 2010 Panther koolaid in my opinion. I think they are going to be okay, even good, but not at large worthy. I will give them the UTMOST respect for scheduling up and giving themselves every chance to build an at large resume. They deserve all the credit in the world for challenging their program in such a manner.

I think they'll be no better than 13-5 in conference, and that's if things break their way big time, and 8-4 non conference, MAYBE 9-3...maybe. Then again, 10-8 and 6-6 isn't exactly out of the picture, and they could be really GOOD and get those records. They'll need at least 23 wins for an at large and that better include at least 1 good team. I just don't think they're all that good. Sorry.

Now don't get me wrong, they have a better chance, right now, at an at-large than WSU does, if for no other reason than their schedule.

[shoxtop]

Don't get me wrong, I will not be surprised if we get 3+ teams in, especially considering the media love affair with dougie. My surprise comes from Lunardi believing at this point that we will get that many.

[ShockerFever]

Too many people are drinking the 2010 Panther koolaid in my opinion. I think they are going to be okay, even good, but not at large worthy. I will give them the UTMOST respect for scheduling up and giving themselves every chance to build an at large resume. They deserve all the credit in the world for challenging their program in such a manner.

I think they'll be no better than 13-5 in conference, and that's if things break their way big time, and 8-4 non conference, MAYBE 9-3...maybe. Then again, 10-8 and 6-6 isn't exactly out of the picture, and they could be really GOOD and get those records. They'll need at least 23 wins for an at large and that better include at least 1 good team. I just don't think they're all that good. Sorry.

Now don't get me wrong, they have a better chance, right now, at an at-large than WSU does, if for no other reason than their schedule.

I totally agree Doc. I'm just not sold on all of this UNI love. They were very mediocre last year, losing to bad teams, and were a few bounces away from being a play-in team. They got some experience but you have to have some talent with that experience and I just don't see it. All I ever see with them is a bunch of chuck-up 3 point brick layers that like to hold the ball until there's 5 seconds left in the shot clock. Take out the flopping calls, and their defense is just ok. They'll probably move up by default because a few teams lost a lot. But I think 10-8 would be better bet than 13-5, with 11-7, maybe 12-6 more likely. I personally think they're gonna get murdered with their non-con. They may not even wind up above .500 with it.

I think they'll have a perfect team for an NIT run.

[shockmonster]

Too many people are drinking the 2010 Panther koolaid in my opinion. I think they are going to be okay, even good, but not at large worthy. I will give them the UTMOST respect for scheduling up and giving themselves every chance to build an at large resume. They deserve all the credit in the world for challenging their program in such a manner.

I think they'll be no better than 13-5 in conference, and that's if things break their way big time, and 8-4 non conference, MAYBE 9-3...maybe. Then again, 10-8 and 6-6 isn't exactly out of the picture, and they could be really GOOD and get those records. They'll need at least 23 wins for an at large and that better include at least 1 good team. I just don't think they're all that good. Sorry.

Now don't get me wrong, they have a better chance, right now, at an at-large than WSU does, if for no other reason than their schedule.

Kwadzo Aheligbe was the one player who a stud against WSU in 2006. He was able to put the team on his back and made everyone better. He was a very good 3 ball shooter (at least against the shocks), could penetrate the lane because of his quickness and strength all the way to the basket, or penetrate and dish off to some very good 3 ball shooters who were not superior athletes. He was also good at defense. Since Kwadzo left, they're just not as good. I'm not sure that we ever beat UNI when he was playing.

[WuDrWu]

Kujo was a mouthy pain in the ass, but he was just 4-3 against the Shocks. I know it seemed worse than that.

[Dave Stalwart]

I agree with everybody about the Panthers, but I'm struggling even more about Illinois State.

It is really infrequent for a school to come back the year after a coach leaves and be as good as they were the year before. To me, its almost an easy pick to predict that a Valley team who just lost their coach will be a few games down at best....not UP...and in the dance...? To say, Illinois State will be BETTER than they were last year is a huge stretch to me. We got a new coach who was and is as good as a school could hope for and were WAY down. MOSU got a new coach and were way down even with Weems back. CU wasn't awesome in year one with Big McD. The closest thing you could argue is ISUb in Lansing's first year, but that was still only a 12-6 season, a hot string of defense in St. Louis, upsetting two great teams, and then an embarrassment on the big stage because they didn't belong.

Anyway, It would be a hugely successful season under a brand new coach if ILST is as good as they were last year. I see them as a solid 4th or 5th place finisher, but not a team that will be able to challenge CU. They will be similar to last year, with another berth in the NIT. That is, unless the new coach is some kind of special. Coaching is huge in the Valley because the talent level isn't generally as high across the board. You take away a good coach, and that team might be back to square one.

On the other hand, I do feel like UNI has a good argument but it just remains to be seen. I think they are one step above ILST and I can see a prediction that they may be in the dance. My reasoning, once again, is COACHING. Jacobson is still there and he is a solid coach.

In the Valley, the teams who don't have coaches in flux are the teams you should be banking on. CU, WSU, UNI, UE, ISUb will all be ready to go (although I don't mean that I think UE and ISUb are going to contend...I just think they will be decent and maybe good). ILST, SIU, BU and MOSU are obvious question marks to me...not NCAA preseason picks.

Its just a funny take on bracketology for the Valley. I would like to hear the reasoning why it isn't CU, WSU and UNI in that order. I understand the idea that we may be down, having lost who we lost. I just do not buy that we lost so much that our coaching and recruiting efforts won't be able to cover a lot of the loss. The idea that Marshall will be able to bring in talent and get it up and running in time for the spring seems way easier for me to believe that Jackie Carmichael and a brand new coach will be able to have ILST BETTER than they were last year without Nic Moore or Jank. hmmmm

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

It lost me at 4 PAC 12 teams. Fail.

[SubGod22]

I agree with everybody about the Panthers, but I'm struggling even more about Illinois State.

It is really infrequent for a school to come back the year after a coach leaves and be as good as they were the year before. To me, its almost an easy pick to predict that a Valley team who just lost their coach will be a few games down at best....not UP...and in the dance...? To say, Illinois State will be BETTER than they were last year is a huge stretch to me. We got a new coach who was and is as good as a school could hope for and were WAY down. MOSU got a new coach and were way down even with Weems back. CU wasn't awesome in year one with Big McD. The closest thing you could argue is ISUb in Lansing's first year, but that was still only a 12-6 season, a hot string of defense in St. Louis, upsetting two great teams, and then an embarrassment on the big stage because they didn't belong.

Anyway, It would be a hugely successful season under a brand new coach if ILST is as good as they were last year. I see them as a solid 4th or 5th place finisher, but not a team that will be able to challenge CU. They will be similar to last year, with another berth in the NIT. That is, unless the new coach is some kind of special. Coaching is huge in the Valley because the talent level isn't generally as high across the board. You take away a good coach, and that team might be back to square one.

On the other hand, I do feel like UNI has a good argument but it just remains to be seen. I think they are one step above ILST and I can see a prediction that they may be in the dance. My reasoning, once again, is COACHING. Jacobson is still there and he is a solid coach.

In the Valley, the teams who don't have coaches in flux are the teams you should be banking on. CU, WSU, UNI, UE, ISUb will all be ready to go (although I don't mean that I think UE and ISUb are going to contend...I just think they will be decent and maybe good). ILST, SIU, BU and MOSU are obvious question marks to me...not NCAA preseason picks.

Its just a funny take on bracketology for the Valley. I would like to hear the reasoning why it isn't CU, WSU and UNI in that order. I understand the idea that we may be down, having lost who we lost. I just do not buy that we lost so much that our coaching and recruiting efforts won't be able to cover a lot of the loss. The idea that Marshall will be able to bring in talent and get it up and running in time for the spring seems way easier for me to believe that Jackie Carmichael and a brand new coach will be able to have ILST BETTER than they were last year without Nic Moore or Jank. hmmmm

The big difference is ISU was left with a full cupboard and quite a bit of talent. One of the best big men in the conference and a big threat on the wing. When 3G got here, the talent was lacking, that's not the case at ISU. And even though MSU had Weems, they lost A LOT from the year before. I don't remember CUs team and if there were any issues there. And the coaching change at ISU is probably an upgrade as well. They did lose their FR PG who was pretty good. Not great, but good. That's really the only question mark with ISU that I have this year. Will they be good enough at the point? I think they will be just fine and should finish in the top 3 and will probably be picked ahead of us in most polls.

I think UNI will be good, not great. You can say what you want about the talent level and the lack of athleticism, but Coach Jake knows what he's doing and will keep them a threat. They were pretty young last year and should be improved. And they appear to be recruiting at a decent level from what I've seen. A few lucky bounces and they could be in good shape. They lost some close ones last year if I remember correctly. And they definitely have to OOC schedule to make some noise if they can win a few of those. I'd still pick them to finish 4th myself, but they're capable of finishing higher if a few things go their way.

[Dave Stalwart]

I don't disagree with any if that. I hope they are both good and I think they will be. I don't think I can rank them above our boys though even if I had to put my bias aside. I think I'm just annoyed that a good recruiting class, several comparable-if not better returners (than their uni/ilst counterparts) and a proven coach don't get the benefit of the doubt coming off a conference championship.

Oh well. Nothing wrong with getting passed over in the preseason, and nothing wrong with a strong valley! we may need both of those things this year :)

[SubGod22]

I expect us to finish above both of them. But ISU didn't lose anyone to graduation and we lost 5. I think that's what people are going to see. We have a very good recruiting class, but returners are going to carry more weight with preseason picks. ISU has that advantage. Their upper classmen have had more impact than ours at this point. That doesn't mean ours suck or are worse, but that's what people have to go on.

[shockmonster]

Kujo was a mouthy pain in the ass, but he was just 4-3 against the Shocks. I know it seemed worse than that.

I'll take your word on the 4-3 but he was the key that made others better. He constantly penetrated on our point guards and then either made big baskets or dished to others behind the 3pt. line. Without him, in my opinion, we'd have been 7-0.

[Shoxfan11]

I'll take your word on the 4-3 but he was the key that made others better. He constantly penetrated on our point guards and then either made big baskets or dished to others behind the 3pt. line. Without him, in my opinion, we'd have been 7-0.

I remember their game against KU in the big dance, I don't remember how much he scored or if he scored much at all, but one of the biggest factors in that game to me was his trash talking and how he got in Sherron Collins' head and completely threw him off. Something that I thought was really important but I felt most people didn't really notice.