Shockers vs Lipscomb (Monday, Nov 6th)

[WuDrWu]

Positives are we won, Abidde with a solid game without forcing, rebounding, and balance. Many of you are high on style points but I thought it was a low point. Way too much one on one street ball. Bell had good stats but when he drives he is looking almost exclusively for himself. We looked terrible against their zone and opposing coaches will, no doubt, take note. Just one game but we have some good pieces if HCPM can get them to play together and not individually. Will be interesting to see how we do against a full court pressing team. I have my doubts.

I have no doubts at all. We'll get obliterated by pressing teams.

[ShockRef]

And your point is what???

Doc has an eye towards January and beyond. The season is long and a grind. Only having 7-8 players will take a toll on the legs.
The ball moment and overall attitude of the team last night was telling. There is a new coach who actually coaches and has a staff that is working hard with the players.
Abidde is the best example of an athletic player who had stagnated under the previous regime.

The difference in Ballards body was also telling. He looked bad when he showed up last year. His body was not ready for a full season of D1 basketball and he didn't last long.
The late, late pick up of Ridgnal was a lucky set of circumstances.
Missouri State couldn't use him?
Alrighty.
Abidde and him are interchangeable @ the 4 spot. Nice to actually have depth at a position.

Just a different feel with the team and guys. The attitude on the bench was very noticeable. HCPM will not have it any other way.
Guys like Pierre and Walton were smart to move on. Those type of players (attitudes) do not last long in an HCPM program.
As mentioned before, with HCPM, you are either all in or you are out.
Western KY will be more athletic than the Bisons. Let's see how Thursday turns out.

That is all.

[Shocktoberfest]

Just a different feel with the team and guys. The attitude on the bench was very noticeable. HCPM will not have it any other way.
Guys like Pierre and Walton were smart to move on. Those type of players (attitudes) do not last long in an HCPM program.
As mentioned before, with HCPM, you are either all in or you are out.
Western KY will be more athletic than the Bisons. Let's see how Thursday turns out.

That is all.

I think this is where I am. The Ws may not come this year, but there is definitely at least a different vibe. And we are VERY thin, especially when one of our 7 is Ballard. I'm worried about that dudes body making it a full season with big minutes. He has to play a lot. No other options.

[WuDrWu]

This isn't an indictment on the program or Coach Mills. It is what it is. We have a small collection of mostly misfit toys. Colby & Kenny belong. Everyone else we're going to lean on is a piece. We're going to need each of those pieces to excel at the one or two things they do well, and not kill us with everything else. And stay healthy. And not get tired.


I enjoyed and appreciated the effort last night. I thought we made a concerted attempt to share the ball (at times) meaning there were glimpses of good passing (among the more than glimpses of poor motion). We also bullied them offensively, which is absolutely something we should have done to win the game. I'm not complaining about that, I am celebrating that, but it's not repeatable when the competition gets better.

[ShockingButTrue]

Lipscomb is about a 65' hail mary from finishing above .500 in the Valley. Translation for Kung: They. Ain't. Very. Good.

Having Acey on the bench sure seems to have helped Abidde. All in all a decent debut for the new regime, albeit against a bottom end (at best) D1 team...

Hilltoppers will be a truer litmus test than last night was. Looking forward to it.

[shock]

I don’t think anybody here looked at any part of the Lipscomb game, at any point in the game, and thought, “The savior has come! We will make the NCAA!” I don’t think anyone here thinks everything is magically fixed and we will make 20 wins. Seems that there was somewhat of a sigh of relief after the Rogers State game that this team has a sign of life again.

What I’m seeing are flip sides to the same coin. EVERYONE recognizes we will have significant troubles with teams who deep and well led. What I don’t get are those who were expecting the “right coaching hire” to get us right back to where we were with Marshall. That would take someone like Penny. Is Penny ball really what we want?

I thought we recognized the shortcomings of WSU in the NIL world? We are not going to get the choice or even second choice of the litter, be it HS or JUCO. But when have we ever? Our issues were/are with retaining players when we find them, like RCIV and Dex.

To win at our level, which we expect is the tier below blue blood, we need a coach with a system. A system takes time. Maybe Mills isn’t Tang or Marshall, but that doesn’t mean he’s pill poppin Randy Smithson, and he isn’t Turg, and he isn’t Isaac.

Change IS hard, but I see ADKS and HCPM making positive strides. Look for progress, and look for the intangibles. I believe they are there in spades. We will see the character this year as they lose game after game. If the character is there, if the fight continues to be there, we will likely be ok.

And for all of those saying Marshall wanted three PG, it’s because in his first year he thought he had one and Matt went down, and he had none. Didn’t we only win 9 or 11 that year? The offense looked atrocious but man that team could rebound.

[WuDrWu]

Doc has an eye towards January and beyond. The season is long and a grind. Only having 7-8 players will take a toll on the legs.

Yep. And I'm not complaining about it, just observing it. It's also part of the reason I don't get redshirting Bamba. In addition to likely needing the body, why get a kid better on your dime, then get nothing for it when he moves on? Use him now.

The ball moment and overall attitude of the team last night was telling. There is a new coach who actually coaches and has a staff that is working hard with the players.

No doubt there is coaching going on AND a staff that is together, something that was lacking previously.

Abidde is the best example of an athletic player who had stagnated under the previous regime.

I don't think "Ike" was Fool's gold. I think he's going to continue to improve and be a really nice player, this year.

The difference in Ballards body was also telling. He looked bad when he showed up last year. His body was not ready for a full season of D1 basketball and he didn't last long.

Having a plan certainly makes a difference, doesn't it?

The late, late pick up of Ridgnal was a lucky set of circumstances.
Missouri State couldn't use him?
Alrighty.

Yeah, I just don't understand this...maybe something will surface on down the road but how in the world does a kid with a fair amount of skill and that much motor not find a way on the floor a lot more than he did with a barely over .500 Valley team?

Abidde and him are interchangeable @ the 4 spot. Nice to actually have depth at a position.

Pay attention folks, the man knows what he's talking about, even if the depth is limited to one or two positions.

Just a different feel with the team and guys. The attitude on the bench was very noticeable. HCPM will not have it any other way.
Guys like Pierre and Walton were smart to move on. Those type of players (attitudes) do not last long in an HCPM program.
As mentioned before, with HCPM, you are either all in or you are out.

As a person fortunate enough to sit with a perfect view of the bench for at least one more season, it is a joy to see that. Culture will take time, but it's still fun to watch, and support, from day 1.

Western KY will be more athletic than the Bisons. Let's see how Thursday turns out.

Two All CUSA senior guards will give us all the challenge we need. Certainly a 2-0 start is a plus and something I did not expect (and honestly still don't, although the likelihood is much greater after last night).

That is all.

[BOBB]

WuDrWu is being pretty clear to me that we need to temper expectations. Not
negatively comparing Mills to Randy. This is going on to likely be a rough season from a W-L perspective. Success looks like playing better at the end of the season, kids staying bought in, and recruiting wins. I have no idea how Mills will stack up in the pantheon of Shocker coaches. I know that HCGM was 11-20 in his first year and he was empirically better than Randy Smithson.

[shockerfan]

WuDrWu is being pretty clear to me that we need to temper expectations. Not
negatively comparing Mills to Randy. This is going on to likely be a rough season from a W-L perspective. Success looks like playing better at the end of the season, kids staying bought in, and recruiting wins. I have no idea how Mills will stack up in the pantheon of Shocker coaches. I know that HCGM was 11-20 in his first year and he was empirically better than Randy Smithson.

Not so sure anyone one on here needs to temper expectations all that much. I think we all are in agreement this isn't going to be an amazing year in terms of wins and losses. It is what it is. Mills and the team will make the best of it.

But I agree with you.

For me I am looking for the intangibles. That will give me some excitement and hope moving forward. And that was on display pretty well last night. That is how it CAN still be a fun year. If we don't get so hung up on wins and losses and just appreciate those intangibles.

That's what I am gonna do anyway.

[Shock Top]

Don't forget the Shox are also missing 3 scholarship players through eligibility or going AWOL, but I guess only Lipscomb missing players effected the result of this game..

I didn't expect an NCAA bid this season. I just wanted to see an identity and the forming of a culture that the fan base can get behind; much like what we saw in Marshall's first two seasons. I believe we saw glimpses of that on the court last night. That doesn't mean they are going to win 20 games, but it does mean they could be building towards something in the future.

I get people are still pissed about how WSU lost their HOF coach; I still am as well. That being said, it's time to move on and support the coach and players who are here now. If people are going to be pissed unless the Shox play perfect basketball and win 20+ games a season in year one or two, you're going to be unhappy for awhile. Marshall didn't make it to the NCAA until year 5; Kelvin Sampson didn't make it until year 4.

Give the program some time before writing them off. This a different feeling to the previous AD and HC combo.

[shockrah]

Eldridge's game analysis:

https://news.yahoo.com/wichita-state-basketball-game-analysis-125433832.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

[forevershockerfan]

After watching this game, it reminded how fortunate our Shockers were last Season when Kevin Porter stayed on as a Shocker. Likewise, about the combo of Kenny P. and Colby Rogers both stayed on this Season as Shockers. HCPM played a huge part in this success. While this will still be a challenging Season with them, I remember the many challenges that both Coaches Turgeon and Coach Marshall faced their first Season here.

[Stickboy46]

Don't forget the Shox are also missing 3 scholarship players through eligibility or going AWOL, but I guess only Lipscomb missing players effected the result of this game..

Not sure what point you are trying to make with this comment. Yes it affected both sides ... but our team is what it is and is likely 99% going to be missing all 3 of those scholarship players the entire year. The reason to point out that Lipscomb is missing its best player is to understand how to gauge the performance towards future performances. So when you look at where Lipscomb was projected to be this year, you have to take it down a few notches to understand exactly who we faced last night. The fact that we are missing 3 players that we will continue to miss the entire year is irrelevant when trying to adjust expectations for this year based on last nights performance.

[Shockm]

Eldridge's game analysis:
https://news.yahoo.com/wichita-state...ycsrp_catchall

For those who think we will always be bad at zone offense, it appears that Mills has a plan to get better at attacking zones, and maybe we will improve on it.

4. Shockers work through their zone issues


Perhaps the largest roadblock for WSU in its 17-point victory came after the first media timeout in the second half when Lipscomb coach Lennie Acuff switched to a 2-3 zone.

WSU’s offense had been humming, but the zone grinded it to a halt. The Shockers looked unsure of themselves against the zone, as they settled for outside shots and produced just three points on their first five trips down the floor. That allowed Lipscomb to trim its deficit to nine points, 55-46, with 12:21 left.

“Some of our formations just weren’t right,” Mills said. “There were some screening and set plays that we run and in the moment, guys just weren’t screening at that particular time.”

After some antsy possessions, WSU finally calmed down and took its time to find Dalen Ridgnal, the player floating in the middle of the zone at the free throw line, to collapse the defense.

On the first time he touched it, Ridgnal found Isaac Abidde open in the right corner for one of WSU’s three 3-pointers in the game. On the next zone possession, Ridgnal caught it again in the middle of the defense and attacked the rim. His shot was blocked, but Quincy Ballard recovered the loose ball for an easy basket.

What finally drew Lipscomb out of the zone was a sideline special from Mills that ended with an alley-oop dunk by Abidde over the top of the defense. The high-flying sophomore had a free runway down the baseline as his launch pad because both of WSU’s centers, Ballard and Kenny Pohto, were setting back screens on Lipscomb’s bottom zone defenders to create the alley-way for Xavier Bell to throw the lob.

“The screens have to be right, the screens have to be on time, the pass has to be right, the catch has to be made,” Mills rattled off. “There’s so many moving parts. To be honest, I was already thinking, ‘Alright, do they remember what we’re trying to do defensively now?’”

After its initial issues with the zone, WSU solved its problems — without needing a timeout — to score on its final three trips. The Shockers finished with 10 points on eight zone possessions, while the team finished at 1.07 points per possession on offense and 0.82 points per possession on defense.

[RoyalShock]

Here is my "I'm overreacting, it's just one game" analysis.

We have a glaring lack of perimeter makers. I know Pohto, Bell and Ridgnal are supposed to be capable, but until I see it I'm going to remain skeptical. Any night we shoot better than 25% from three will feel like a huge success.

The only difference I saw between Rogers' first half and second half, was that in the first half the forced and hunted shots were going in. The unfortunate thing is that I think we'll need him to continue hunting and forcing until someone else proves they can hit an open three.

I was very disappointed in Beverly, but have hope he'll settle in and be the player we expected.

I was also very disappointed in Germany. I was expecting him to be a solid contributor ahead of Ballard. Unless he's battling an injury, I doubt we'll see much more from him than maybe a few minutes per half due to foul trouble or fatigue.

Hopefully after Thursday those observations will be different.

On the positive side, I'm liking what I see from Abidde. He'll have his good games and bad games, but I expect his production will get more consistent with consistent playing time. With he and Ballard on the floor together, any opposing player would be fooling to take the ball inside against them.

Pohto missed some easy ones, but he's going to have his share of double-doubles this year and have some games where he looks uncontainable.