Shockers vs Lipscomb (Monday, Nov 6th)

[moshock]

I don't know. But I will say this. If it were me, and after fall grades are posted he's "ok" with the NCAA regs, then **** it and just play him. What's the NCAA going to do? Somebody gonna run into the gym and pull him off the court? They gonna make us take down our 10th place AAC finish at the end of the year? Change the book to show 5 wins were actually losses?

Just play him and tell the NCAA to come get some. ****, send the NCAA video of him playing. They had more on KU and they got off without even a warning.

It's pretty much what Penny did at Memphis a couple of years ago

[vancedave56]

There will be a lot of growing pains, look what was inherited (or was not). What was our record in 3G's first season? How many seasons did it take to become relevant?

A "point guard" is not good terminology in today's game IMO. Positionless basketball relies on various talented basketball players.
A great ball handler would help a bunch, but let's give these guys a chance and give them our support.

If you watch closely, you can see learning taking place, which
is a lot more than can be said for the last few seasons. I believe we will be very good...eventually.

[Stickboy46]

Non-P5 can barely get into the NIT anymore regardless.

That's why I said nit CONVERSATION lol

[Stickboy46]

The negativity on Mills is off the charts considering we don't know any of the reasons that we ended up without a PG. We almost ended up without one last year until Armchair came through with a car for him to use.

The big-dollar NIL guys here get a used car to drive while they're here. Players leaving WSU were getting nice 6-figure cash deals. They could buy a nice brand new car and still have over $100 grand in the bank.

Throwing Mills under the bus right now is not a good look when you don't know how hard he tried or whether he had the resources ($$) to land a PG. The ones we missed seemed to go to P5 schools.

By the time Mills was hired other schools probably had cash offers on the table for players they wanted. This attitude of NCAA first year or bust is delusional. K-State did it, but do you have any idea how much cash retired farmers have at their disposal? WSU does not have a history of producing a lot of wealthy alumni compared to other D1 schools in the area, and Wichitans are notoriously tight with their money.

People are giving him time but he's still responsible. WSU is paying him millions of dollars to coach AND recruit players ... If he can't, he won't be here long. You can make all the excuses in the world for him (and so far you are doing a good job at it) but it doesn't matter. He doesn't get excuses. He either does those two things well or WSU fails and he's ultimately responsible.

[Stickboy46]

There will be a lot of growing pains, look what was inherited (or was not). What was our record in 3G's first season? How many seasons did it take to become relevant?

A "point guard" is not good terminology in today's game IMO. Positionless basketball relies on various talented basketball players.
A great ball handler would help a bunch, but let's give these guys a chance and give them our support.

If you watch closely, you can see learning taking place, which
is a lot more than can be said for the last few seasons. I believe we will be very good...eventually.

The NCAA is a completely different world now, so the Marshall first year comparison is kinda irrelevant.



Also just like people have said "don't judge too harshly off of one game" ... Which I agree with... I'm not sure how you can say "if you watch closely you can learning take place which is a lot more than can be said for the last few seasons", after one game. We have no idea if things will get better or worse than what we saw in one game. I'd also say for all of Brown's faults, we 100% got better through the year last year, it was just too little too late for him.

[vancedave56]

I can say that because I did watch closely.
IMO the Marshall first year is relevant. The NCAA may be different - but both coaches deal with daunting tasks the first season. Marshall after Turgeon - with a few returners; Mills after Brown with a few returners.
Recruiting is just as difficult now as it was then, possibly more difficult in our situation.

I did watch the one preseason game: I did see players communicating with each other. I did not see any players putting on a show.

To each his own, but I believe.

[Aargh]

People are giving him time but he's still responsible. WSU is paying him millions of dollars to coach AND recruit players ... If he can't, he won't be here long. You can make all the excuses in the world for him (and so far you are doing a good job at it) but it doesn't matter. He doesn't get excuses. He either does those two things well or WSU fails and he's ultimately responsible.

Just a hypothetical

A highly sought PG gets an NIL offer of $100,000 from a P5 school and an offer of a nice used car to drive while he's on campus at WSU.

And you're going to blame Mills if that recruit chooses the $100,000? Recruiting in the NIL era is different than it used to be.

The better players coming out of the portal are going to attract the high dollar offers because they've had a year or two to show what they can do and there's very little risk. I think it's unlikely that Armchair can match the offers those players are getting. What appears to be the best strategy is to go fo HS guys in the 150 range and hope to retain them until they've demonstrated enough that boosters can be convinced to finance them for a couple years.

The athletic department and the boosters were able to come up with $3 mill+ for Marshall because he was winning and the boosters wanted that. If Mills stays below $2 mill once Marshall's buyout is finished, then there should be a million or so that could be freed up for NIL deals. A mill a year for a winning program is probably realistic.

[Stickboy46]

Just a hypothetical

A highly sought PG gets an NIL offer of $100,000 from a P5 school and an offer of a nice used car to drive while he's on campus at WSU.

And you're going to blame Mills if that recruit chooses the $100,000? Recruiting in the NIL era is different than it used to be.

The better players coming out of the portal are going to attract the high dollar offers because they've had a year or two to show what they can do and there's very little risk. I think it's unlikely that Armchair can match the offers those players are getting. What appears to be the best strategy is to go fo HS guys in the 150 range and hope to retain them until they've demonstrated enough that boosters can be convinced to finance them for a couple years.

The athletic department and the boosters were able to come up with $3 mill+ for Marshall because he was winning and the boosters wanted that. If Mills stays below $2 mill once Marshall's buyout is finished, then there should be a million or so that could be freed up for NIL deals. A mill a year for a winning program is probably realistic.

Are you asking if Mills is the one held accountable for the success of the program no matter what the excuses are? If so then yes. Period.

[shockerfan]

Disappointing but not surprising. I'm not holding out hope for him to be eligible at all this year if it requires any sort of waiver for 2nd semester (I don't know if its automatic or will still require approval). At this point in recruiting, if you have a player needing a waiver, you need to recruit as if that player doesn't exist. Going into the year with 10 Scholarship players and no PG is a really bad start. (though to be fair, Ricks leaving probably isn't something they could have known).

Taylor says he believes another waiver will need to be submitted after the fall semester.

So yeah....I am not counting on him being eligible at all this year.....

[BostonWu]

I don’t know where the confidence from mills is coming from. Bell does not inspire me whatsoever. In fact, I was hoping we’d recruit over him.

Obviously need to give Mills time, but this bullshit lack of transparency that we had before with access to Eldridge and the glaring lack of any PG, it really leaves me wearing thin. I’m tired of being bottom of the league, tired of being Memphis’s ****ing beat stick. In this day and age with virtually new teams every year, I don’t buy the “build the foundation” since that foundation gets reset every year. To me, maybe I’m going overboard, but we need to be able to have Mills come in and build a team from scratch that can reach the tourney year ONE. And not having a PG for a full 10 games minimum means that is highly unlikely.

I’m ranting here, but you get the point.

Agree with the first paragraph. The rest is overboard.

[BostonWu]

The negativity on Mills is off the charts considering we don't know any of the reasons that we ended up without a PG. We almost ended up without one last year until Armchair came through with a car for him to use.

The big-dollar NIL guys here get a used car to drive while they're here. Players leaving WSU were getting nice 6-figure cash deals. They could buy a nice brand new car and still have over $100 grand in the bank.

Throwing Mills under the bus right now is not a good look when you don't know how hard he tried or whether he had the resources ($$) to land a PG. The ones we missed seemed to go to P5 schools.

By the time Mills was hired other schools probably had cash offers on the table for players they wanted. This attitude of NCAA first year or bust is delusional. K-State did it, but do you have any idea how much cash retired farmers have at their disposal? WSU does not have a history of producing a lot of wealthy alumni compared to other D1 schools in the area, and Wichitans are notoriously tight with their money.

If all that's true then not sure how we can compete moving forward.

[shockerfan]

If all that's true then not sure how we can compete moving forward.

Unless the NIL bucket gets better....it's likely we can't. At least not at the level we were used to.

[BAShocker]

Breaking: Paul Guffrovich (sp) and Fridge Holman have agreed to walk on the WSU bball program to be a point guard.

[Joerg]

Joerg go to gym get lifters and walk on run macheen. For get shape play Shox PG. Joerg is not collegeguy so Joerg can play 4 yrs........,,Yes, is ok Shox fan? Joerg make many the laying up on fools when young in playing at school. Hehe hehe

Thanks is Joerg

[AZ Shocker]

Go get 'em Joerg!