Shockers vs Lipscomb (Monday, Nov 6th)

[SubGod22]

Sub and Stick:

What exactly do you need to be satisfied with the direction of the program. I would take Paul over Penny everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Whoever you wanted as coach was not to be. GET OVER IT!

I literally would like to know what you expect. What will it take for you to get on the Paul Mills bandwagon?

Speak up or simply shut your pie holes. You fatigue this board with your anti PM comments.

Most of this board including me are happy with the progress of the program. Is it perfect, no. But we are getting better. Enjoy the ride.

I'm not one to blindly follow or get rah rah about anything. I also haven't been posting anything anti Mills and I don't think Stick has either. Pointing things out that are visible to all isn't inherently bad or negative. There are still questions. There are reasons for hesitancy. There are also valid reasons for some to be optimistic.

My Shocker blinders have never been as strong as many. In most aspects of life I'm pretty analytical and observant and that's how I mostly roll. I want Mills to succeed as having to go through yet another coaching change would be difficult in short order. I wanted Brown to be successful even though I was never a fan of his hiring and how DB went about it.

You can still support a program and want what's best for it without being a sunshine pumper. I will still watch every game. I will still want them to win every game. That doesn't mean I expect a great season. I want to see progress. I want to see continued development.

I have pretty low expectations for this year. Though unlike some on here, I'm not giving into the absolute defeatist attitude that WSU can no longer compete at the highest levels. Sure, things will have to change compared to how Marshall did it but I think the whoa is us mentality of some on this board are much worse and more negative than anything I or Stick have posted.

Seriously, if you no longer feel that Wichita can be a player why even care anymore? Why invest? If that's the attitude some want to spread than our NIL abilities will never get better because at that point, what's the point?

At some point in the next three years Mills has to have us contending for conference titles and set up to make a run. In the portal Era it's much more doable to make quick turnarounds than it was in the past. He doesn't have to make a Final Four, but at some point he has to have a program that you believe could make that run. There are no guarantees but even under Turgeon and Marshall I was of the stance that being satisfied with just getting to the tournament isn't enough.

He gets some time to accomplish that and I hope he does.

So my pie hole will remain open and I will continue to make observations about the team and what I see. If you don't like that you can **** off and block me. I don't give a **** what your opinion on my thoughts is and if you think I'm bringing the board down there's a simple way for you to avoid my posts.

Concerning you, I'm not worried

[asiseeit]

Well stated

[Atxshoxfan]

Do we really need to go back through the past 25 years of CBB recruiting again?

WSU has never come close to recruiting as good as Memphis. Ever.

The best coach we had in school history coming off a final four and like 7 consecutive years of making the NCAA Tournament still didn’t come close to out recruiting Memphis.

Expecting Paul Mills to come in and do it off the bat is dumb.

It is a lazy and stupid comparison.

The 2 freshmen commits for the 2024 class are literally 2 of the 10-15 highest rated high school recruits WSU has ever signed. Both could be top-10, depending on what service you want to look at.

Not really sure what else you want.

You make a remark about WSU never recruiting better than Memphis, "ever". But you complain about going back 25 yrs.

It invited me contest your statement.
Gene Smithson recruited AC , Cliff and Ozell Jones one year. That's 2 Micky D all Americans and all three went to the NBA
A couple years later X McDaniel, Gregg Dreilng (sp) and Aubey.
So ya, WSU has recruited better than penny.

But I do agree with the rest of your post though.

[ShockerExpress]

You make a remark about WSU never recruiting better than Memphis, "ever". But you complain about going back 25 yrs.

It invited me contest your statement.
Gene Smithson recruited AC , Cliff and Ozell Jones one year. That's 2 Micky D all Americans and all three went to the NBA
A couple years later X McDaniel, Gregg Dreilng (sp) and Aubey.
So ya, WSU has recruited better than penny.

But I do agree with the rest of your post though.

Fair. Modern era of rankings recruits is a better way to state it.

I am also not saying it isn't possible to get there - But expecting it continually using it as an example of Mills not meeting your own expectations is not a fair comparison, IMO.

[pinstripers]

You make a remark about WSU never recruiting better than Memphis, "ever". But you complain about going back 25 yrs.

It invited me contest your statement.
Gene Smithson recruited AC , Cliff and Ozell Jones one year. That's 2 Micky D all Americans and all three went to the NBA
A couple years later X McDaniel, Gregg Dreilng (sp) and Aubey.
So ya, WSU has recruited better than penny.

But I do agree with the rest of your post though.

going back 40 years

[Stickboy46]

I'm not one to blindly follow or get rah rah about anything. I also haven't been posting anything anti Mills and I don't think Stick has either. Pointing things out that are visible to all isn't inherently bad or negative. There are still questions. There are reasons for hesitancy. There are also valid reasons for some to be optimistic.

My Shocker blinders have never been as strong as many. In most aspects of life I'm pretty analytical and observant and that's how I mostly roll. I want Mills to succeed as having to go through yet another coaching change would be difficult in short order. I wanted Brown to be successful even though I was never a fan of his hiring and how DB went about it.

You can still support a program and want what's best for it without being a sunshine pumper. I will still watch every game. I will still want them to win every game. That doesn't mean I expect a great season. I want to see progress. I want to see continued development.

I have pretty low expectations for this year. Though unlike some on here, I'm not giving into the absolute defeatist attitude that WSU can no longer compete at the highest levels. Sure, things will have to change compared to how Marshall did it but I think the whoa is us mentality of some on this board are much worse and more negative than anything I or Stick have posted.

Seriously, if you no longer feel that Wichita can be a player why even care anymore? Why invest? If that's the attitude some want to spread than our NIL abilities will never get better because at that point, what's the point?

At some point in the next three years Mills has to have us contending for conference titles and set up to make a run. In the portal Era it's much more doable to make quick turnarounds than it was in the past. He doesn't have to make a Final Four, but at some point he has to have a program that you believe could make that run. There are no guarantees but even under Turgeon and Marshall I was of the stance that being satisfied with just getting to the tournament isn't enough.

He gets some time to accomplish that and I hope he does.

So my pie hole will remain open and I will continue to make observations about the team and what I see. If you don't like that you can **** off and block me. I don't give a **** what your opinion on my thoughts is and if you think I'm bringing the board down there's a simple way for you to avoid my posts.

Concerning you, I'm not worried

This .. stated perfectly. I'll continue to bring my opinion. If it's such a problem, then Kung Wu can ban me. My opinion will evolve as the results evolve (or dont). Right now, i'm liking some progress we are seeing but also have some major reservations. Sorry that bothers you

[Aargh]

You make a remark about WSU never recruiting better than Memphis, "ever". But you complain about going back 25 yrs.

It invited me contest your statement.
Gene Smithson recruited AC , Cliff and Ozell Jones one year. That's 2 Micky D all Americans and all three went to the NBA
A couple years later X McDaniel, Gregg Dreilng (sp) and Aubey.
So ya, WSU has recruited better than penny.

But I do agree with the rest of your post though.

Smithson was recruiting to one of the top conferences in D1. There may have been a little bending of the rules in getting Carr, and WSU got a post season ban for Jones. It wasn't just the jacket he left Wichita with, it was probably more that he wasn't eligible coming out of high school.

[Shockm]

There may have been a little bending of the rules in getting Carr, and WSU got a post season ban for Jones. It wasn't just the jacket he left Wichita with, it was probably more that he wasn't eligible coming out of high school.

Since you brought it up, the rules weren't bent to get him to sign (his mother being taken care of), but rumors flew a few years later after she moved into a home.

I think it's interesting how much Bobby Knight and Gregg Marshall paralleled each other. Both had a reputation of not wanting cheating going on, and they emphasized it publicly. The opposite of what has been happening at Larry U with Bill Self who has coaches caught on FBI tapes.

Here is an article on Bobby Knight that pertains to his hating of cheating.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...in-recruiting/

[Stickboy46]

Since you brought it up, the rules weren't bent to get him to sign (his mother being taken care of), but rumors flew a few years later after she moved into a home.

I think it's interesting how much Bobby Knight and Gregg Marshall paralleled each other. Both had a reputation of not wanting cheating going on, and they emphasized it publicly. The opposite of what has been happening at Larry U with Bill Self who has coaches caught on FBI tapes.

Here is an article on Bobby Knight that pertains to his hating of cheating.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...in-recruiting/

The irony that one of those coaches no longer coaches (for other reasons) and the other was just made the highest paid coach in the NCAA (Freaking greater than 10 million a year) with a lifetime contract

[Onegreatracer]

Since you brought it up, the rules weren't bent to get him to sign (his mother being taken care of), but rumors flew a few years later after she moved into a home.

I think it's interesting how much Bobby Knight and Gregg Marshall paralleled each other. Both had a reputation of not wanting cheating going on, and they emphasized it publicly. The opposite of what has been happening at Larry U with Bill Self who has coaches caught on FBI tapes.

Here is an article on Bobby Knight that pertains to his hating of cheating.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...in-recruiting/

The Bobby Knight/Gregg Marshall parallels are very interesting and certainly there. I think a school like Charleston Southern or Coastal Carolina will be FHCGM's Texas Tech.

[SubGod22]

The Bobby Knight/Gregg Marshall parallels are very interesting and certainly there. I think a school like Charleston Southern or Coastal Carolina will be FHCGM's Texas Tech.

Marshall won't coach again and that's his choice. Even if he were still with us, he'd probably be planning his retirement soon.

[Onegreatracer]

Marshall won't coach again and that's his choice. Even if he were still with us, he'd probably be planning his retirement soon.

You're probably right, but competitors always get that itch again.

[WuShock16]

You're probably right, but competitors always get that itch again.

He can scratch that winter competition itch on a South Carolina golf course.

[WuDrWu]

He can scratch that winter competition itch on a South Carolina golf course.

Or Pebble Beach, or Flint Hills or Any Damned Course He Wants C.C.

[Atxshoxfan]

going back 40 years

That's within the "never ever" time frame that was stated.