Wichita State at UCF Game Thread 2-8-22

[Shockm]

He did travel, but that's a travel that is rarely called. The out of bounds is still debatable. Video evidence didn't definitively show either way. I'd have to watch the video again, but if he had reestablished himself inbounds there was nothing wrong with him touching it as technically the ball was still in possession of a teammate and it wasn't a loose ball scenario. So once he was inbounds again he was perfectly fine to be passed to.

Here is Taylor's article with video evidence and the rule on whether establishing oneself after stepping out of bounds is enough or not. According to Taylor and the rule book, the player cannot be the first one to touch the ball after returning to the court.

Here is the rule on that.
Rule 9, Section 3, Article 1 states “A player who steps out of bounds under his own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.” Did Mahan step out of bounds under his own volition? It appears that he did upon video replay of the sequence, as Porter and Dexter Dennis had Mahan trapped in the corner and Mahan took two steps out of bounds in an attempt to move around the defense to free himself up for a pass.

It does appear to me that we got screwed on the other call too. However, we have lost a lot of games (at least 3-4) that we should have won this year, except for "stupidity", and that's on Brown.

https://www.kansas.com/sports/colleg...258201013.html

[WstateU]

Here is Taylor's article with video evidence and the rule on whether establishing oneself after stepping out of bounds is enough or not. According to Taylor and the rule book, the player cannot be the first one to touch the ball after returning to the court.

Here is the rule on that.
Rule 9, Section 3, Article 1 states “A player who steps out of bounds under his own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.” Did Mahan step out of bounds under his own volition? It appears that he did upon video replay of the sequence, as Porter and Dexter Dennis had Mahan trapped in the corner and Mahan took two steps out of bounds in an attempt to move around the defense to free himself up for a pass.

https://www.kansas.com/sports/colleg...258201013.html

We didn't deserve to win the game anyway, but the 'out of bounds' call was horrendous when video should have easily overturned the call. I can't believe three refs couldn't watch the replay and get it right... it was obvious it went off the UCF player. Mr. Magoo could have made that call...

[wichshock65]

Agreed adjustments are late, once again never said they weren't. Hilarious that we're just assigning results of games that haven't/won't be played to try to continue with a narrative.

Some that I can remember from the last couple games:

Defensive adjustments - zone, zone with a high trap.

Offensive adjustments - RC4 in the middle of the zone, running sets to find the corner in the SMU game in the second half, putting Tyson primarily off ball, going iso with guards against UCF when they started to switch everything.

I'm no coach, not even close. Just a fan. But Ricky in the middle of the zone was used early in the year and abandoned until recently. TE off ball was used quite effectively last year and abandoned until recently. Running any sets and not just rolling out the ball and letting Dawgs dawg also seams to be more recent. It takes our OJT coach 3/4 of the season to make your mentioned adjustments? Not sure I call that progress.

I'm sure I'm off and over simplistic, but that's what I see. Perhaps the progress IB makes next year is being able to make adjustments 1/2 way through the season.

[SubGod22]

Here is Taylor's article with video evidence and the rule on whether establishing oneself after stepping out of bounds is enough or not. According to Taylor and the rule book, the player cannot be the first one to touch the ball after returning to the court.

Here is the rule on that.
Rule 9, Section 3, Article 1 states “A player who steps out of bounds under his own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.” Did Mahan step out of bounds under his own volition? It appears that he did upon video replay of the sequence, as Porter and Dexter Dennis had Mahan trapped in the corner and Mahan took two steps out of bounds in an attempt to move around the defense to free himself up for a pass.

It does appear to me that we got screwed on the other call too. However, we have lost a lot of games (at least 3-4) that we should have won this year, except for "stupidity", and that's on Brown.

https://www.kansas.com/sports/colleg...258201013.html

Again, once he's back inbounds, someone else is already/still touching the ball, so he's not first. If you want to say he can't receive the first pass, then games are going to get a lot more complicated as guys on the sideline often will step on the out of bounds line and then go receive the next pass when coming up from the corner/wing area. The rule as quoted has more to do with a loose ball. As in a guy goes and saves a ball from going out and then comes in and is the first to touch. It has nothing to do with receiving the next pass.

This is more about Taylor and others trying to find an excuse for letting a guy get an easy basket from a baseline inbounds play.

[SHOXAAC]

Aren't you one of the guys that says winning the AAC last year was pure luck?

Go ahead and avoid the question by asking a question.

[Kel Varnsen]

Again, once he's back inbounds, someone else is already/still touching the ball, so he's not first. If you want to say he can't receive the first pass, then games are going to get a lot more complicated as guys on the sideline often will step on the out of bounds line and then go receive the next pass when coming up from the corner/wing area. The rule as quoted has more to do with a loose ball. As in a guy goes and saves a ball from going out and then comes in and is the first to touch. It has nothing to do with receiving the next pass.

This is more about Taylor and others trying to find an excuse for letting a guy get an easy basket from a baseline inbounds play.

Based on my understanding of the rule, this is correct.

[Dan]

This is why it is baffling in late game situations he is playing the 2 guard role to TE at the 1. It just doesn't make any sense to me at all since both players are much better in the other role.

Perfect example of poor coaching

[Dan]

Good point.

Other than CF, who have we signed through the portal that has really panned out over the last ten years? Blair, Coleby, Grady were okay. It has definitely been a negative sum game for us and one of the reasons I am bitter about college basketball.

I would like to go through the other AAC rosters and see how many transfers each one of them have and who are solid contributors. You can turn a good nucleus into a shell because of the portal, or you can turn a mediocre team into a good one in a years time.s

Armstead has been our best transfer. Kyle Wilson up there too.

[Kel Varnsen]

Aren't you one of the guys that says winning the AAC last year was pure luck?

I wouldn't say it's "pure luck", but we were fortunate to only play Memphis once and SMU never.

As far as most predictive metrics, they had us as the fourth-best team in the conference. So, not "pure luck", but there was definitely some luck involved. And that includes winning close games, as there's no data to indicate certain teams are better over the long haul at winning close games.

[Shockm]

Again, once he's back inbounds, someone else is already/still touching the ball, so he's not first. If you want to say he can't receive the first pass, then games are going to get a lot more complicated as guys on the sideline often will step on the out of bounds line and then go receive the next pass when coming up from the corner/wing area. The rule as quoted has more to do with a loose ball. As in a guy goes and saves a ball from going out and then comes in and is the first to touch. It has nothing to do with receiving the next pass.

This is more about Taylor and others trying to find an excuse for letting a guy get an easy basket from a baseline inbounds play.

I don’t doubt you right but this rule isn’t artfully stated. I know in football, that a receiver cannot leave the playing field on his own (avoiding defenders bumping him out), and come back in and catch a pass. I don’t know the basketball rule except what Taylor wrote down.

[TrackSuitAndTie]

I wouldn't say it's "pure luck", but we were fortunate to only play Memphis once and SMU never.

As far as most predictive metrics, they had us as the fourth-best team in the conference. So, not "pure luck", but there was definitely some luck involved. And that includes winning close games, as there's no data to indicate certain teams are better over the long haul at winning close games.

To me it seems like we used all of our close game luck last season and have none this year. There have been a half dozen games this year where we could have won if a bounce or two had gone our way at the end. The solution: play better so you don't end up in close games.

[proshox]

He did travel, but that's a travel that is rarely called. The out of bounds is still debatable. Video evidence didn't definitively show either way. I'd have to watch the video again, but if he had reestablished himself inbounds there was nothing wrong with him touching it as technically the ball was still in possession of a teammate and it wasn't a loose ball scenario. So once he was inbounds again he was perfectly fine to be passed to.

Read the article and watch Taylor’s clips. It is quite clear that he went out and didn’t establish himself (not sure establishing himself even matters based on the rule).

[proshox]

Perfect example of poor coaching

Huh? We got great shots every time. Either Craig attacking making/missing a lay-up or Tyson with a catch and shoot three.

The idea was to get the UCF defense focused on Tyson (using Tyson’s history of going OneOnOne), Tyson would pass it to Craig which let Craig quickly attack while the defense was reorganizing… Craig read and reacted well except for maybe his last drive (I think Tyson was wide open, but Craig took a good two point attempt that didn’t fall).

[Dan]

Huh? We got great shots every time. Either Craig attacking making/missing a lay-up or Tyson with a catch and shoot three.

The idea was to get the UCF defense focused on Tyson (using Tyson’s history of going OneOnOne), Tyson would pass it to Craig which let Craig quickly attack while the defense was reorganizing… Craig read and reacted well except for maybe his last drive (I think Tyson was wide open, but Craig took a good two point attempt that didn’t fall).

so you're saying let's not do what works (getting Tyson freed up off a screen) and let's have Tyson, who is a notoriously below average ball handler that routinely drives straight into traps, initiate the offense whereby he will look to shoot threes off the bounce, which is not a good option, or feed to Porter for the drive. They'll never suspect anything. The only part of that plan that I like is when he gives the ball back to Porter.

[SubGod22]

Read the article and watch Taylor’s clips. It is quite clear that he went out and didn’t establish himself (not sure establishing himself even matters based on the rule).

Again, the rule is more based on someone saving the ball, going out of bounds, and then being the first to touch it. I've watched the video and he does reenter the court while the inbounder is in possession of the ball so he's also not the first to touch it after returning to the court. This isn't football where he's completely forbidden from touching the ball until someone other than the person currently holding it touches it first. I'm not sure if that where some of the confusion comes into play or not.

I've seen the video and read what Taylor wrote. He's misunderstanding or misinterpreting the rule relative to the play at hand. If this is how the rule were implemented, we'd have a lot of dead ball situations where someone coming off the wing or out of the corner or even guys who run to the baseline to set up a screen to pop back out would be in violation because a lot of people step on the boundary lines in many instances there.