Where do we go from here

[pinstripers]

We've yet to hit bottom. Not even close. Donor support, SASO, season ticket renewals, etc. are going to look like an apocalypse next year.

Oh Jesus, he's right

[SHOCKvalue]

We've yet to hit bottom. Not even close. Donor support, SASO, season ticket renewals, etc. are going to look like an apocalypse next year.

The WSU AD is Ukraine, and the cold, soulless machine of basic economics is Russia. Of course that analogy is less than perfect because of course Ukraine is actually putting up a fight at some level.

[Woodrow]

https://www.kansas.com/sports/colleg...259299004.html

Couple of crazy stats ...

• "The evidence of settling too often from beyond the arc was evident by the team finishing with the highest three-point rate (41.4% of WSU’s shots were three-pointers) in program history. It didn’t help matters that WSU’s 31.2% accuracy on triples was the sixth-worst since the three-point line was introduced in 1986. Per Synergy, WSU ranked No. 295 in the country at catch-and-shoot efficiency, despite generating the 36th-most unguarded looks."

We Need to be searching for a shooter or two. Someone that can consistently hit open shots. That and no post presence are our biggest issues (though Pohto has the ability to get there IMO even if he isn't there yet).

• "it was the first team to average more turnovers than assists since 2009."

Obviously way too many TOs and not enough assists .. but I wonder how the stats would look if we could hit those open shots like in the first stat. Can't get an assist if you can't make the shot or the layup.

• "Synergy’s advanced numbers pull back the curtains even further: WSU ranked No. 282 in its halfcourt offense and No. 247 in its transition offense (despite ranking in the bottom-30 in turnover rate on fast breaks). WSU was also among the worst in the nation at out-of-bounds plays, ranking No. 347 and scoring a paltry 0.60 points per possession. WSU’s 104.4 adjusted efficiency offensive rating on KenPom was the worst since 2009."

This is coaching. We need to shake up the bench if IB is still around. Find some money to get a GOOD assistant with some offensive chops and let him help devise plays. OOB plays are a coaching thing. End of Half plays are a coaching thing. Transition offense is a player and practice thing but derive from the coaching in practice.

Here are some things the coaches should have done and can do in the future. Run the offense through Porter and Council. Porter led the team in 3pt%, blocked shots, assists, steals, and can create his own shot and create for others. He averaged far less minutes per game than Dex and Tyson?
Council was the only other offensive threat when handling the ball. He too can create his own shot and create for others. He also averaged about the same minutes as Porter.
All IB talked about was how good of a shooter Ricks is in practice. Why didn't he pull that redshirt and get him in the games? Makes no sense. If he can't play good defense then swap Dex and him like Marshall always did.
We needed size, so pull the redshirt for Abidde and let him learn while playing. Memphis looks ragged at the beginning of the year playing all the freshmen but they learn to play and are good now.
Don't have Mo spend the summer working on his 3 pt shot when he can't even make an 8 footer. IB was giddy about his progress shooting 3's at the beginning of the season and I'm just shaking my head listening to him.
Insist the players put in extra time shooting on their own. If they practice they will get better, but I heard no reports of players staying after the game to shoot 3's. Although one did stay and pick up trash. Nice thing to do but not helpful for the team.
As far as getting a really good assistant to come in and fix our offensive woes, I don't think we can attract someone like that. Most up and coming assistants want to work for a HC who can teach them not the other way around.

[Stickboy46]

Here are some things the coaches should have done and can do in the future. Run the offense through Porter and Council. Porter led the team in 3pt%, blocked shots, assists, steals, and can create his own shot and create for others. He averaged far less minutes per game than Dex and Tyson?
Council was the only other offensive threat when handling the ball. He too can create his own shot and create for others. He also averaged about the same minutes as Porter.
All IB talked about was how good of a shooter Ricks is in practice. Why didn't he pull that redshirt and get him in the games? Makes no sense. If he can't play good defense then swap Dex and him like Marshall always did.
We needed size, so pull the redshirt for Abidde and let him learn while playing. Memphis looks ragged at the beginning of the year playing all the freshmen but they learn to play and are good now.
Don't have Mo spend the summer working on his 3 pt shot when he can't even make an 8 footer. IB was giddy about his progress shooting 3's at the beginning of the season and I'm just shaking my head listening to him.
Insist the players put in extra time shooting on their own. If they practice they will get better, but I heard no reports of players staying after the game to shoot 3's. Although one did stay and pick up trash. Nice thing to do but not helpful for the team.
As far as getting a really good assistant to come in and fix our offensive woes, I don't think we can attract someone like that. Most up and coming assistants want to work for a HC who can teach them not the other way around.

Good thoughts. I do think IB might be stuck in the "old ways" when it comes to redshirting. He's seen the benefit of them over the years under Marshall. In the past though, a redshirt did one extra thing it doesn't now .. it made players think twice about transferring after redshirting because they would have already burnt their "transfer redshirt". Now it doesn't matter. You can redshirt a player and he can still bounce at any time to another program. I think 5 year players at one school will be an extreme exception going forward so we need to adjust our thoughts on whether redshirts make sense. If a player is adamant they want to redshirt .. then yes let them .. but never try to talk a player into one.

As far as the assistant thing. I agree a coach is going to want to go somewhere where they can learn. For as bad as this year was .. we still ended basically a Top 50 Ken Pom defense. So you can look for an offensive minded coach that is looking to learn how to teach defense and grow that way. That's a win/win for the staff. I have no idea who that would be, but I don't think you can blanket say that no up and comer can learn anything from IB.

Too much of the offense was run through Tyson ... who just wasn't efficient this year. Hopefully if he moves on, that forces the staff to rethink how the offense runs (even though they should do it anyways)

[Ted Lasso's Neighbor]

Here are some things the coaches should have done and can do in the future. Run the offense through Porter and Council. Porter led the team in 3pt%, blocked shots, assists, steals, and can create his own shot and create for others. He averaged far less minutes per game than Dex and Tyson?
Council was the only other offensive threat when handling the ball. He too can create his own shot and create for others. He also averaged about the same minutes as Porter.
All IB talked about was how good of a shooter Ricks is in practice. Why didn't he pull that redshirt and get him in the games? Makes no sense. If he can't play good defense then swap Dex and him like Marshall always did.
We needed size, so pull the redshirt for Abidde and let him learn while playing. Memphis looks ragged at the beginning of the year playing all the freshmen but they learn to play and are good now.
Don't have Mo spend the summer working on his 3 pt shot when he can't even make an 8 footer. IB was giddy about his progress shooting 3's at the beginning of the season and I'm just shaking my head listening to him.
Insist the players put in extra time shooting on their own. If they practice they will get better, but I heard no reports of players staying after the game to shoot 3's. Although one did stay and pick up trash. Nice thing to do but not helpful for the team.
As far as getting a really good assistant to come in and fix our offensive woes, I don't think we can attract someone like that. Most up and coming assistants want to work for a HC who can teach them not the other way around.

I think in the past WSU would send the big men off to camps to learn some skills and they need to do that if they can afford to do it. If not, ask Stutz and some of the other guys who come to town in July for the TBT to stick around for awhile and work with the players. (Just keep the almuni away from current players who are interested more in telling them about being pro's).

As far as practicing shooting, WSU definitely has the equipment to make that happen. Taylor posted the following of Council working on his shot alone earlier this year after the Tulane game:

https://twitter.com/tayloreldridge/s...83265315852290

[CBB_Fan]

Our Recruiting right now is a massive red flag for this staff ... that can be lined up with the rest of the red flags.

Let's take a look at our recruiting. Recruiting today consists of a few different categories of players:

• 'unranked' freshmen, i.e., two-stars that you vet to try and find diamonds in the rough
• 'ranked' freshmen, three-stars rated as top X in their position, four stars rated as top 100 in the country, five stars usually as top 25
• graduate transfers
• non-graduate transfers
• JUCO transfers
• international players

We have two incoming redshirt freshmen. Jalen Ricks is a three-star 6'7 outside player, Isaac Abidde is a three-star 6'9 inside player.

We have 10 open offers and no commitments. 8 of those are to outside players. One of those is a three-star, Preston Murphy Jr., a 6-1 outside player; he had committed to DePaul but then decommitted; they remain our chief competitor. All of the others are traditional unranked freshmen from a variety of prep schools. None are the 'big, unpolished' type; the largest recruit we've offered is 6'8 Jaret Teherán Valencia.

As I understand, we've shown interest in one transfer, 6'5 Milwaukee guard DeAndre Gholston. No international or JUCO interest so far.

As the biggest element of change is the transfer portal, it is hard to say what we'll actually pursue, but so far we haven't done a single thing to increase our size and athleticism and we've only really got one shot at the traditional ranked freshmen that could likely come in and play. Ricks and Abidde are a bit more promising than anyone in our current offers.

The most pessimistic view is that we could see almost the entire 10-man active roster transfer out, when we have literally no commitments. Forget bringing in better talent or length, we may scramble to put a young crop of almost exclusively low two-star recruits on the floor with maybe one or two unproven post players on the roster. That worst case scenario would be a team with the talent of last place MVC team put together at the last minute.

The most optimistic is that we could easily entice a few 10-14 PPG transfers with ample minutes, bring in Ricks and Abidde, and try to just keep momentum going with minimal departures as Brown gets better as a coach.

[ShockerFever]

Stick getting taken to the woodshed again…

[Stickboy46]

Since we are into "reading too much into random quotes/posts" time of year. Kenny Pohto posted a bunch of his Shocker photos with a caption of "to be continued" ...

[SHOXAAC]

I think Monzy could be a great player for the right coach. He went downhill under the IB system. Hell, I think that holds true for most on the team.

I don't see it. Too unpredictable, low BBIQ.

[SHOXAAC]

My personal plan for all this is to start buying PowerBall and Mega Millions lottery tickets on a weekly basis. If I hit the jackpot, I'll be buying out contracts left and right, and will bring back football at the new Ted Lasso's Family and Neighbors stadium.

And create a series that includes a connection to WSU football. Hey, I'm in for that...sounds good.

[wichshock65]

Couple of thoughts:

Not sure IB would ever hire a "Ying" to his "Yang". Strikes me as someone who would want a like minded assistant coach rather than a type A personality.

We have had 3 point shooting problem the entire time IB has been the coach. He has told us, and all of the team, to keep throwing them up and eventually they would go in. They never did, and he never made adjustments.

[ShockingButTrue]

Here are some things the coaches should have done and can do in the future. Run the offense through Porter and Council. Porter led the team in 3pt%, blocked shots, assists, steals, and can create his own shot and create for others. He averaged far less minutes per game than Dex and Tyson?
Council was the only other offensive threat when handling the ball. He too can create his own shot and create for others. He also averaged about the same minutes as Porter.

Run the offense through Porter and Council? How'd that work out this year. And don't give us that same ol "Mo this and Mo that..." It's kind of tired by now. Abidde?

Did you notice in the compiled stats posted in this thread that WSU is one of the worst fast break offenses in the country? And one of the worst for in bounds plays? Who's supposed to be running the fast break Woodrow? Porter couldn't keep up? And Porter's inability to inbound the ball has been stated on this board more than a few times. What next, those were all Mo's fault? Oh, wait...

Seriously, no one on this board ever said Porter was a 'bad' point guard. Serviceable? Yeah. Slow? Yeah. We all saw what happens when he tries to speed the ball up, i.e. push it up the court (look at the stats). I myself thought J. Burton was a better point guard. Chris Beard wanted him (that would be Burton).

It's not secret HCIB was left with an empty cupboard (6'7" center) from the previous staff, except, of course, for last years point guard.

Cool your jets. It's gonna' be alright. Pohto's a pretty good piece to build around as a stretch 5. Now get Porter and Council to play a little smarter and WSU will be working with something...

[SHOXAAC]

I am struggling to find who is a good bet to stay. Here it goes...

Stay:
Porter: Became more confident as the season progressed shooting from distance. Good ball skills. Can go get his own shot when needed. Only player with a 2:1 A-TO ratio. High BBIQ. Our leading shot blocker at 28 (from a 6-2 PG...go figure). Another uptick in progress next season and he is a solid AAC point guard.
Grant: Where is he going to go? Good ball skills. Learned he can't get a shot in the paint at this level. Can get his own shot when needed. Average defender. Average BBIQ. Had just below a 2:1 A-TO ratio. Needs to improve his shooting all around.
Pleasant: Oh God say it aint so. Like Grant, where is he going to go? Has D-2 talent...enough said...swing and miss.
Pohto: I am begging him to stay. Mo will not be around...at least he better not. If he bulks up some, can become a good stretch 5. He needs more toughness however. Good shooting touch although needs to develop some post game.
That is all I feel decent about staying folks.

Leaving:
Udeze: Please don't come back. He is a good FT shooter. All else is a liability...can't consistently score around the rim...turnover machine...can't pass...unwilling to improve. Bye Mo.
Etienne: He has all but said he is leaving. Such a sad story all around. Total regression from last season. Enough said.
Dennis: He has run his course. Congrats on winning AAC DPOY. Good BBIQ, but can't handle the ball or shoot. I wish him success.
Council: I am not confident either way, but on the post game yesterday didn't sound positive. I have mixed feelings. By far our best offensive player. His one-handed YMCA moves drove me nuts. He did at times hunt his shot like ETN. Good rebounder. Below average defender and BBIQ.
Jackson: His body language the last half of the season screamed "checked out." Outstanding motor,. Excellent rebounder. Ok defender. Below average BBIQ. I noticed several times in the last several games during timeouts he was far away from hearing what was discussed...wait...was anything discussed? Just sayin.
Jenkins: Just don't get a good vibe from Chaunce. Doesn't seem engaged. His play was non-encouraging.

Just my take. Let the fun begin...

[Woodrow]

I am struggling to find who is a good bet to stay. Here it goes...

Stay:
Porter: Became more confident as the season progressed shooting from distance. Good ball skills. Can go get his own shot when needed. Only player with a 2:1 A-TO ratio. High BBIQ. Our leading shot blocker at 28 (from a 6-2 PG...go figure). Another uptick in progress next season and he is a solid AAC point guard.
Grant: Where is he going to go? Good ball skills. Learned he can't get a shot in the paint at this level. Can get his own shot when needed. Average defender. Average BBIQ. Had just below a 2:1 A-TO ratio. Needs to improve his shooting all around.
Pleasant: Oh God say it aint so. Like Grant, where is he going to go? Has D-2 talent...enough said...swing and miss.
Pohto: I am begging him to stay. Mo will not be around...at least he better not. If he bulks up some, can become a good stretch 5. He needs more toughness however. Good shooting touch although needs to develop some post game.
That is all I feel decent about staying folks.

Leaving:
Udeze: Please don't come back. He is a good FT shooter. All else is a liability...can't consistently score around the rim...turnover machine...can't pass...unwilling to improve. Bye Mo.
Etienne: He has all but said he is leaving. Such a sad story all around. Total regression from last season. Enough said.
Dennis: He has run his course. Congrats on winning AAC DPOY. Good BBIQ, but can't handle the ball or shoot. I wish him success.
Council: I am not confident either way, but on the post game yesterday didn't sound positive. I have mixed feelings. By far our best offensive player. His one-handed YMCA moves drove me nuts. He did at times hunt his shot like ETN. Good rebounder. Below average defender and BBIQ.
Jackson: His body language the last half of the season screamed "checked out." Outstanding motor,. Excellent rebounder. Ok defender. Below average BBIQ. I noticed several times in the last several games during timeouts he was far away from hearing what was discussed...wait...was anything discussed? Just sayin.
Jenkins: Just don't get a good vibe from Chaunce. Doesn't seem engaged. His play was non-encouraging.

Just my take. Let the fun begin...

Seems pretty likely. I hope you are right about Porter and wrong about Council. I can live with the rest.

[pinstripers]

Where would Mo go?