Norfolk State at Wichita State Game Thread 12-11-21

[WuDrWu]

Rome wasn't built in a day. Last night was better. There's LOTS of room for improvement in my life. So too this team, but one thing I am certain of, and that's they try harder than I do.

There were some men on that Norfolk State team. I think their PG is too physical for the NFL.

Effort and defense will continue to win the day for this team, and that's not going to change.

Success is mostly about the Jimmys and Joes. You don't have to have the best, but you need difference makers. Guys that do things that make the other team adjust. Tyson makes other teams adjust. Houston has about 4 guys that make you adjust. We need a couple of Jimmys and at least one Joe.

We all criticize and complain. To quote Roger Chetty from Google, "It's what we DO." We're roughly 14 months out from the absolute worst thing that's happened to our basketball program since 1989 when Tom Shupe hired Mike Cohen to lead the program for $70,000 per year. 32 years ago. (Our head women's basketball coach makes 5 times that amount today, let that sink in for a minute) Anyway, in the 14 months since the sudden and completely unexpected (and unplanned) departure of the best coach this program has ever seen, this program is 23-8 with a conference title, NCAA birth and seems poised to compete for another NCAA birth at the end of this season and by all measures is a top 60ish type team, and that's with everyone here seeing about 20 things we CAN improve upon. It's not like we're UNI where if we play a perfect game we can stay within 10 of Arkansas. You've heard no issues inside the program and all of this has been accomplished while the Athletic Department struggles near financial collapse due to Covid. Literally no one will support Gregg Marshall more than I will, and he was handed the keys to a purring Lexus compared to what IB was handed 14 months ago and was 10-21 in his first 31 games and was thrown out of the play in conference tournament game, AND he had been a head coach for 9 seasons prior. Compare IB instead to Mike Cohen (never the head guy when given the reigns) who also went 10-21 in his first 31 games.

I've said it before and I'll say again, probably enough times to piss off everyone on this fine forum, but everything is not perfect, and there are legitimate and serious concerns on the horizon. We have to get better if we plan on continuing this success. This team isn't pretty to watch right now, but if we're being honest, there were some 2010s team that were pretty brutal to watch, and most of those teams turned out ok. Keep supporting these guys and remain engaged. They got better last night, maybe not marginally better, but they got better. Let's do that 3 more times and then see what we can do in conference.

Tomorrow isn't promised. Go Shocks.

[ShockHat]

I’m just a lurker here, but there’s a ton of negative nancies. Some good reasons to be negative sure, but certainly not to the degree that some of you are. The team plays hard, they’re 7-2, and after a tough loss, are showing signs that they’re working towards improvement.

I know it can be frustrating with every game down to the wire it seems, but I love this team so much more than the final set of teams Marshall was producing (and I am a Marshall fan).

It can take a couple years to really get going from a coach’s perspective (and it’s really IB’s first true year that isn’t marred by Covid which disrupted tons of coaching last year), so the fact that we’re here is nothing short of incredible.

I’m going back to lurking now

[TheShocktocles]

I know I am repeating myself over and over but I just don't see TE as a PG in anyone's league.
ZERO assists and passed up an easy one on a fast break to selfishly gun a three.
Now, instead of Jenkins starting in his place, I'd really like to see RC4 start at SG.
Can anyone name a phase of the game RC4 hasn't been better at this year than TE?
And again, KP needs more minutes. Would like to see him START at the stretch four spot.
JP and Jackson can sub the 7-8 minutes MU needs rest at center or KP can still a few
minutes there if needed. We are WASTING KP's value/talent !!!!!! We have just 3 more
games to try something new. At least even out TE and RC4's minutes regardless of who
starts.........RC4 is the better player.

Yikes!!!!! Here we go again about who needs to be starting. More RAT POSION for the dumb and naive. The starting line up does not need to be changed. If it needed to be changed, Coach Brown would do it. What matters is what you do on the court when you are playing.

Here are some facts for everyone so focused on starting. Donte Divncenzo did not start for Villanova and was 6th man of the year in the Big East. He was drafted in the 1st round of the NBA draft .

MFondu Kabengele did not start for Florida State and was 6th man of the year in the ACC. He was drafted in the 1st round of the NBA in 2019. Patrick Williams did not start for Florida State and was 6th man of the year in the ACC. He was drafted in the 1st round of the NBA Draft 2020.

All this talk about who should be starting is nothing but loud noise by you to distract this team. Coach Brown is not waisting the value or talents of RC4 and KP by having them come off the bench. We need every player to have the discipline to accept their role and play hard and smart in the game. Coach IB will determine minutes played.. But it is clear to me that you have an agenda to disrupt this team by your RAT POSION. Go Shocks.

[Husker4Shockers]

Even if Craig had done nothing else all game he'd-a got my vote for Player of the Game for stuffing the NS player's bush league move at the end . Awesome!

[Stickboy46]

Even if Craig had done nothing else all game he'd-a got my vote for Player of the Game for stuffing the NS player's bush league move at the end . Awesome!

The double block at the end was great Karma

[BOBB]

Yikes!!!!! Here we go again about who needs to be starting. More RAT POSION for the dumb and naive. The starting line up does not need to be changed. If it needed to be changed, Coach Brown would do it. What matters is what you do on the court when you are playing.

Here are some facts for everyone so focused on starting. Donte Divncenzo did not start for Villanova and was 6th man of the year in the Big East. He was drafted in the 1st round of the NBA draft .

MFondu Kabengele did not start for Florida State and was 6th man of the year in the ACC. He was drafted in the 1st round of the NBA in 2019. Patrick Williams did not start for Florida State and was 6th man of the year in the ACC. He was drafted in the 1st round of the NBA Draft 2020.

All this talk about who should be starting is nothing but loud noise by you to distract this team. Coach Brown is not waisting the value or talents of RC4 and KP by having them come off the bench. We need every player to have the discipline to accept their role and play hard and smart in the game. Coach IB will determine minutes played.. But it is clear to me that you have an agenda to disrupt this team by your RAT POSION. Go Shocks.

You sound unwell

[BOBB]

Rome wasn't built in a day. Last night was better. There's LOTS of room for improvement in my life. So too this team, but one thing I am certain of, and that's they try harder than I do.

There were some men on that Norfolk State team. I think their PG is too physical for the NFL.

Effort and defense will continue to win the day for this team, and that's not going to change.

Success is mostly about the Jimmys and Joes. You don't have to have the best, but you need difference makers. Guys that do things that make the other team adjust. Tyson makes other teams adjust. Houston has about 4 guys that make you adjust. We need a couple of Jimmys and at least one Joe.

We all criticize and complain. To quote Roger Chetty from Google, "It's what we DO." We're roughly 14 months out from the absolute worst thing that's happened to our basketball program since 1989 when Tom Shupe hired Mike Cohen to lead the program for $70,000 per year. 32 years ago. (Our head women's basketball coach makes 5 times that amount today, let that sink in for a minute) Anyway, in the 14 months since the sudden and completely unexpected (and unplanned) departure of the best coach this program has ever seen, this program is 23-8 with a conference title, NCAA birth and seems poised to compete for another NCAA birth at the end of this season and by all measures is a top 60ish type team, and that's with everyone here seeing about 20 things we CAN improve upon. It's not like we're UNI where if we play a perfect game we can stay within 10 of Arkansas. You've heard no issues inside the program and all of this has been accomplished while the Athletic Department struggles near financial collapse due to Covid. Literally no one will support Gregg Marshall more than I will, and he was handed the keys to a purring Lexus compared to what IB was handed 14 months ago and was 10-21 in his first 31 games and was thrown out of the play in conference tournament game, AND he had been a head coach for 9 seasons prior. Compare IB instead to Mike Cohen (never the head guy when given the reigns) who also went 10-21 in his first 31 games.

I've said it before and I'll say again, probably enough times to piss off everyone on this fine forum, but everything is not perfect, and there are legitimate and serious concerns on the horizon. We have to get better if we plan on continuing this success. This team isn't pretty to watch right now, but if we're being honest, there were some 2010s team that were pretty brutal to watch, and most of those teams turned out ok. Keep supporting these guys and remain engaged. They got better last night, maybe not marginally better, but they got better. Let's do that 3 more times and then see what we can do in conference.

Tomorrow isn't promised. Go Shocks.

Everything you say is true and I know it to be true, but I am still having a hard time watching this basketball. The Ws and Ls are there and this program has had an iffy offense for a while that was papered over by some NBA and near NBA talent, so it is not just an IB thing. At this point watching the team feels like saying my prayers, training hard and taking my vitamins, something I know I'm supposed to do but don't really want to. I'll keep knuckled down.

[Kel Varnsen]

I often feel compelled to come on this site and offer my analysis after a game, but then Doc posts and I feel like there’s nothing further I can offer.

[asiseeit]

In response to Shocktocles who I respect as a poster you couldn't be further off base
about my intentions. I have no intention of spreading any "rat poison" . I have a high level
of confidence in my basketball knowledge relative to most posters but also realize and
respect that there are some other very solid basketball minds on here, as well. If you
sincerely believe that I post here to do harm by spreading poison you couldn't be more wrong.
Most great coaches experiment with starting lineups especially prior to conference games.
Some constantly change and for good reasons. "Riding" with any player doesn't cut it with
me. I expect TE will remain a valuable player to this team and his stats will improve BUT he
isn't even the best PG on this team let alone a promising NBA talent. His controlling the
ball and the offense is hurting the team AND himself. Others have seen it, as well. Others
have also noticed that RC4 and KP have been under utilized. Whether they start or not is NOT
the important thing it's their minutes and under utilization that bothers me. We have three
games left to experiment a little to see if we can pump some life into a stuttering offense.
Starting a couple others might not help but then again, who knows, IB might discover something
hidden.

[Singeril]

Taylor Eldridge article was interesting. He said what we all saw. Some good steps in the right direction. But some lingering problems. How about the Shocks making the 8 point blank layups they missed. That would help the offense. Did not care for TE statement about there going to be some games we lose. Well Tyson thats true, but 1 game you can not lose is to a crappy Kstate team. Fuk that. That is the kind of attitude that gets you beat. Go Shocks.

Gotta say, I didn’t like TE’s comment either….winners don’t talk like that.

[shock]

Everything you say is true and I know it to be true, but I am still having a hard time watching this basketball. The Ws and Ls are there and this program has had an iffy offense for a while that was papered over by some NBA and near NBA talent, so it is not just an IB thing. At this point watching the team feels like saying my prayers, training hard and taking my vitamins, something I know I'm supposed to do but don't really want to. I'll keep knuckled down.

What’s really frustrating is the lack of production out of set offense. The defense creates scoring opportunities but once the opposing defense is set, this team has a hard time scoring. That is hard basketball to watch for sure.

BUT, they are taking the steps to fix it. Watching the motion sets last night was refreshing, and watching them finally play together was good too. I suspect the new offense will be installed and running well enough by the time conference play comes around that it will be easier to watch.

[WstateU]

You sound unwell

Could be the rat poison…

[atlwsu]

From a 1,000 miles away it looked like there was some animosity between a couple of Shocker and Norfolk players. I thought I saw Etienne and Mo have words with Norfolk after a couple plays that involved a good bit of contact. Did I imagine that? Seemed like an unusual reaction form Etienne.

[Stickboy46]

From a 1,000 miles away it looked like there was some animosity between a couple of Shocker and Norfolk players. I thought I saw Etienne and Mo have words with Norfolk after a couple plays that involved a good bit of contact. Did I imagine that? Seemed like an unusual reaction form Etienne.

Norfolk was very chippy throughout the game.

[Ashockalypse]

Rome wasn't built in a day. Last night was better. There's LOTS of room for improvement in my life. So too this team, but one thing I am certain of, and that's they try harder than I do.

There were some men on that Norfolk State team. I think their PG is too physical for the NFL.

Effort and defense will continue to win the day for this team, and that's not going to change.

Success is mostly about the Jimmys and Joes. You don't have to have the best, but you need difference makers. Guys that do things that make the other team adjust. Tyson makes other teams adjust. Houston has about 4 guys that make you adjust. We need a couple of Jimmys and at least one Joe.

We all criticize and complain. To quote Roger Chetty from Google, "It's what we DO." We're roughly 14 months out from the absolute worst thing that's happened to our basketball program since 1989 when Tom Shupe hired Mike Cohen to lead the program for $70,000 per year. 32 years ago. (Our head women's basketball coach makes 5 times that amount today, let that sink in for a minute) Anyway, in the 14 months since the sudden and completely unexpected (and unplanned) departure of the best coach this program has ever seen, this program is 23-8 with a conference title, NCAA birth and seems poised to compete for another NCAA birth at the end of this season and by all measures is a top 60ish type team, and that's with everyone here seeing about 20 things we CAN improve upon. It's not like we're UNI where if we play a perfect game we can stay within 10 of Arkansas. You've heard no issues inside the program and all of this has been accomplished while the Athletic Department struggles near financial collapse due to Covid. Literally no one will support Gregg Marshall more than I will, and he was handed the keys to a purring Lexus compared to what IB was handed 14 months ago and was 10-21 in his first 31 games and was thrown out of the play in conference tournament game, AND he had been a head coach for 9 seasons prior. Compare IB instead to Mike Cohen (never the head guy when given the reigns) who also went 10-21 in his first 31 games.

I've said it before and I'll say again, probably enough times to piss off everyone on this fine forum, but everything is not perfect, and there are legitimate and serious concerns on the horizon. We have to get better if we plan on continuing this success. This team isn't pretty to watch right now, but if we're being honest, there were some 2010s team that were pretty brutal to watch, and most of those teams turned out ok. Keep supporting these guys and remain engaged. They got better last night, maybe not marginally better, but they got better. Let's do that 3 more times and then see what we can do in conference.

Tomorrow isn't promised. Go Shocks.

Agree with most of this except the purring Lexus part. Gregg was “handed” nowhere near the talent that was on the court when IB started. It was at a whole different “ level” just ask Turg. Still doesn’t take away from your overall point.