Kansas State at Wichita State (Intrust) Game Thread 12-5-21

[Dan]

Against OSU, TE was shut down and he didn’t force shots. The other guys had to step up and fill the void. Tonight TE decided he wanted to get back to scoring points. He’s better when he takes what the defense gives him and we’re better off as a team as well. Hope IB has talks with him.

[shox7]

Haven’t posted in a long time. TE is trying to do way too much. Pass the ball, play defense, get to the foul line. Find a way to be a complete player, not just a shooter. He is being allowed by IB to be selfish, that is a recipe for team chemistry issues and players wondering why he is being allowed so much latitude. IB got out coached by a lot tonight. Mo was the only matchup we had a big advantage with and he let Tyson make the decision to get away from Mo. IB needs to not apologize to us fans, but step up and show TE that he is not going to be selfish, or he can sit on the bench. I know Ricky had 4 turnovers, but he is one of leaders on this team in FG%, 3 pt FG%, steals and rebounds. He also has shown he is harder to guard one on one then Tyson, IF he doesn’t turn the ball over. IB has given TE green light from anywhere on the court and that is coming back to bite the Shox. If IB reigns TE in, to where he is sharing the ball, taking good shots and playing defense this team can be a really good team. If TE is allowed by IB to be selfish the rest of the year we be lucky to be an NIT team.

[ShockerFever]

We choked away a home game on national tv, in front of a big crowd, against a team that won’t even make the NIT.

The offense is still the worst I’ve seen in probably the last 15 years. Iso, no sets, and just jack up anything. More importantly no accountability when bad shots are taken so they continue to go up.

TE has regressed. Probably caught DD disease from a couple years ago. Was told that you’re going a make the NBA. It settles in the brain, and they’re never the same. TE takes absolutely the WORST shots. He makes Markus McDuffie look like MJ.

So is Tyson still 40% from 25 feet and beyond?

I still stand by my comment that this is a mid to lower level NIT team. They just don’t have the discipline to carve out anymore than the bare amount of wins with the talent they have.

That was embarrassing.

[Arizona Shocker]

IB better own this. I have defended him for many reasons, but to allow what I just witnessed for an entire game is inexcusable.

Don't get me wrong TE is an outstanding human being, and a good basketball player with great potential and work effort. But apparently our coaching staff thinks he's Kobe, Bird, and Jordan that can do whatever the hell he wants.

Now let me see if I can lower my blood pressure so I can get a few hours of sleep. I don't remember being this upset after a game in awhile.

This 100%

[ShockerFever]

We are going to win a lot of games because of Tyson…. But we are going to lose some, too. All these bad shots might as well be turnovers.

Nope. I’be been told that’s not how it works.

[Stickboy46]

My two thoughts:

1. The TE thing ... He's playing like crap and selfish. As far as should IB have pulled him at the end when he was taking bad shots ? If Porter wasn't hurt ... Then yes... But Porter was hurt. Who was he going to put in? Grant was already in... So Jenkins? I like Jenkins and think he has a lot of potential, but he's played like 10 min of game time all year. In hindsight he couldn't have done worse that TE. I also have a feeling that if he pulled TE and put Jenkins in, we still lose and then people are ripping IB for pulling TE.

2. What I fault IB for and what I think lost us the game was the lineup change in the first half when we were up like 20-9. He pulled all the starters and put in a lineup I'm not sure has played together all year. I think it was Grant, Jenkins, Council, Monzy, Pohto. That team gave up a double digit lead and lost all the momentum and we had to go back into battle mode instead of playing loose like they started. That lineup stayed in way too long.

[N Crestway]

"Took a quick look and the last time we didn’t have a player on our roster who has either been invited to an NBA training camp or been on an NBA roster? 2005-2006. This may be the first time since then we don’t have one unless something wild happens. That also matters. A lot.[/QUOTE]"

In other words we don't have the horses right now. Personally wish Pleasant and Jackson would become a more positive factor on offense...we need more from the 4 position.

[ShockerFever]

Ever since TE made that long bomb in the first game, he’s not had a solid game.

I was told that was a great shot and that’s a 40% shot for him.

[ShockRef]

Great posts (as usual) and analysis from Doc. I really don't expect anything less.
Moving on...57-39 that's the score difference from the WSU 20-8 lead in the first half.
Says a lot.
First time I had little confidence in HCIB to make adjustments and push the right buttons.
And had this same thought from about the 10 minute mark in the first half.
Yea, right about the same time that KState ran the same pick and roll set four times in a row and score four times in a row...and zero adjustments happened.
About the only thing that happened was a set of coaches who sat there and watched it happen.
Over and...
Over and...
Over and...
Over.
Do not get the play time for Joe Pleasant.
Zero offense and zero rebounding ability. He plays like he has 15lb ankle weights welded to his legs.
More Jackson, less Joe.

Not going to get into the Tyson Etienne audition show. Its been beat to death on here and that poor horse has been pulverized.
There are lots of ways a top shelf player can help his team win. Tyson clearly hasn't accepted that notion and HCIB isn't going to try and change his mindset.
Unless certain things change, better get used to hoping for more 35' shots to win games against the JAX State teams of the world.

Down the not so far off future, this may end up being a case of less = more.

That is all.

[ShockerFever]

I don’t post often, but I lurk daily. Came out of hibernation to state it on the record. IB is not a good coach. He wasn’t last year, he isn’t this year. I want him to do well and I want to eat crow. But whatever “offense” that was is an indictment on his coaching. But he’s nice - so the players like him. So I guess we’ve got that.

I posted something like this but got destroyed for it. We get an inflated record against some bad teams and it hides it. We get a shortened covid season and we win a title, but it still masked it. The guy just doesn’t coach. He’s Penny with less recruiting ability. It’s just the way it is. And on the coach’s show tomorrow, it’ll be the same repetitive **** and nothing will change.

[SHOXAAC]

To make matters worse, IB publicly stated before the season that he was going to utilize TE more to elevate his NBA chances. Sounds good in theory, not looking too good in practice.

It's his job to win college basketball games not pander whether one of his players needs to be utilized more for the NB-*****-A. That level will figure out if a player is good enough for their league or not.

[WuShock16]

Was talking with a friend the other day who was a former D-1 assistant. We were lamenting how the days of having a system and expecting players to buy into it are gone at almost all levels of college ball. It may exist at the fringes (Davidson with Bob McKillop and Belmont with Rick Byrd come to mind), but most teams just run high screen and roll with a little off-ball movement and let a guard make a play. Why? That’s what kids see in the NBA and they want to emulate it. It’s not a WSU-specific issue by any means. It’s endemic to college basketball. And when you try to force a square peg into a round hole by doing it with Etienne as the ball handler, it’s not the best option. I dislike it as much as the next guy but it’s here to stay.

Took a quick look and the last time we didn’t have a player on our roster who has either been invited to an NBA training camp or been on an NBA roster? 2005-2006. This may be the first time since then we don’t have one unless something wild happens. That also matters. A lot.

Go back even farther because Paul Miller was in training camp for the Knicks.

[NCAABound]

I posted something like this but got destroyed for it. We get an inflated record against some bad teams and it hides it. We get a shortened covid season and we win a title, but it still masked it. The guy just doesn’t coach. He’s Penny with less recruiting ability. It’s just the way it is. And on the coach’s show tomorrow, it’ll be the same repetitive **** and nothing will change.

"We just gotta make shots. Everything is better when you make shots."

[WuTheOne]

So far, Grant and Pleasant are recruiting misses. Probably unfair to say that this short into their Shocker careers, but both were thought to be plug-n-play guys and they aren't. Maybe, like JuCo's, they will be better next year, if they choose to play their 5th year. I believe I'd prefer Wades' game to Pleasants'.

[BAShocker]

Agree with everything most have said. Drove home and wanted to punch a hole thru my dash. Serious question though, what is Coach Kennedy’s role? Scout? Mentor? Recruiter? I watched the huddle during timeouts…he rarely says anything. Not trying to beat up the guy-know he has health issues…am just curious.

Oh yeah, and Tyson shoots too much. And I hope Porter isn’t hurt bad…but it sure doesn’t seem good. This could be a big problem or potentially a blessing in disguise…make Tyson run pg more and see if CJ truly can step up.