Wichita State vs. JSU Game Thread 11-9-21

[Stickboy46]

I agree that the last 20 seconds was NBA style, give it to your stud and let him make a play.

If people want to blame IB for that, then lets blame GM for the years of never making a play at the end of games. I remember our group committing several times that no-one could remember the last time we made a last second shot to win a game. Well guess what we just did.

I remember lots of last second plays by GM .... it's just most of the time it ended up with a contested fade away trying to beat the clock that wasn't close lol.

The few times I remember us winning on game winning shots under Marshall were also ISO. The ones that stick out were the two SHJ buzzer beaters.

The only other game winner i remember recently was Dexters shot at Tulane but that was a .5 second OOB shot .. so a little different.

[Stickboy46]

One other note to complain about production ... how do you mess up a freaking banner drop?

[WuDrWu]

I'm guessing you didn't hear IB after the game either when he specifically addressed, without prompting, the lack of just about everything on offense in the first half?

I'll defend IB every bit as much as you'll proudly defend a Coach who did nothing with his own players while here, because he left those players for another guy to Coach. He could have a least thanked the prior Coach for leaving him those competitors. Dean Smith would have had the class to do so. No?

You completely missed my point, but that's ok. I was/am defending IB. Also, you need to let it go about Eddie. 3 years, 2 NCAAs and one NIT. You do better.

[FlyingWheat]

It was a bad shot, but the fact that he made it will have positive impacts on morale, confidence, and chemistry on the team. Let’s just hope it doesn’t mean taking more bad shots.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

I'm going to go a different route with Tyson's final, game winning, last second shot.

For Tyson, it was a decent look if you compare it to his other looks. They were guarding him tight, no matter if he had the ball or if he didn't have the ball (if you don't believe me, watch the game again). JSU had some very athletic guards who were on our guys like glue. JSU were well coached. JSU was prepared for our offense because it was pretty much the same as last year, with pick and rolls, and/or plays trying to get the ball to Tyson with screens. We do not have a strong post game underneath the basket (Jamie would have eaten up the JSU post defense because it was 1 on 1, and our team didn't show the ability to drive the ball, and finish shots.

I liked Tyson's shot from the following POV.

It was a shot that he took facing the basket. Very few of his shots were open shots during the game. Several of his shots were twisting shots after receiving the pass moving away from the basket, with screens (once or twice after receiving two screens) from 20+ feet, and as I said before, he had a guy on him most of the time, even 25 feet from the basket. The shot Tyson took was a shot where he was facing the basket the whole time.

Agreed. He had space and the element of surprise as I am sure the defender was not anticipating it. The game was tied so why not give it a go. He practices that all the time and has shown he can make it. Probably not much different of a percentage shot from if he was closer to the 3 line honestly and they would have defended him tighter closer to the line. Don't have a problem with it. Don't want games to come down to that very often though.

[The Mad Hatter]

The other element of why Tyson's shot was a good one is that it was set up by what he had done on the previous possessions. By successfully getting to the basket and scoring or getting the foul, when he went to that final possession, JSU was crowding the lane and giving him the 1 on 1 on the perimeter that they had been denying him all game. Not giving Tyson 1 one 1 looks from 3 is a very good defensive plan and Tyson forced them to change that plan by getting to the basket.

[ShockingButTrue]

You completely missed my point, but that's ok. I was/am defending IB. Also, you need to let it go about Eddie. 3 years, 2 NCAAs and one NIT. You do better.

You're the one who brought him up genius. Defending IB by referencing Fogler? You're full of ****.

I elucidated my point clearly, I must say. End of discussion.

[ShockingButTrue]

The other element of why Tyson's shot was a good one is that it was set up by what he had done on the previous possessions. By successfully getting to the basket and scoring or getting the foul, when he went to that final possession, JSU was crowding the lane and giving him the 1 on 1 on the perimeter that they had been denying him all game. Not giving Tyson 1 one 1 looks from 3 is a very good defensive plan and Tyson forced them to change that plan by getting to the basket.

Bingo. They didn't want to give up easy points at the line, in a tie game.

[Wuzee]

A couple of thoughts for those concerned about the offense:

1. IB won't run the entire playbook that GM did -- but GM didn't run 50-75 sets in the first month of any season he ever coached. The playbook is expanded throughout the season as guys get comfortable, and was generally pretty vanilla early on, depending on the number of returning rotation players. That led to later seasons where GM's offenses produced point totals in the 60s against Omaha and Texas Southern and in the 50s against Davidson and La. Tech. It's always a process.

2. All plays decay into pure motion if the play timing is off or the defense takes away the options. I thought JVille State was long, athletic and played excellent defense, so that may have contributed.

3. This was Qua's first game against D1 guards, and, crazily, all of the first- and second-year players' first games in front of a real Shocker crowd. There was a lot of learning and pressing and first-real-game stuff going on out there. Only Kenny, who clearly has iced Ramlösa running through his veins, seemed unaffected by it all.

4. The guards missed a bunch of pick-and-pop opportunities to Kenny and Joe that are going to be teachable moments in the film room. When they harness that, I think Kenny and Joe will both have several double-figure scoring games under their belts before the OOC ends.

[ShockingButTrue]

A couple of thoughts for those concerned about the offense:

1. IB won't run the entire playbook that GM did -- but GM didn't run 50-75 sets in the first month of any season he ever coached. The playbook is expanded throughout the season as guys get comfortable, and was generally pretty vanilla early on, depending on the number of returning rotation players. That led to later seasons where GM's offenses produced point totals in the 60s against Omaha and Texas Southern and in the 50s against Davidson and La. Tech. It's always a process.

2. All plays decay into pure motion if the play timing is off or the defense takes away the options. I thought JVille State was long, athletic and played excellent defense, so that may have contributed.

3. This was Qua's first game against D1 guards, and, crazily, all of the first- and second-year players' first games in front of a real Shocker crowd. There was a lot of learning and pressing and first-real-game stuff going on out there. Only Kenny, who clearly has iced Ramlösa running through his veins, seemed unaffected by it all.

4. The guards missed a bunch of pick-and-pop opportunities to Kenny and Joe that are going to be teachable moments in the film room. When they harness that, I think Kenny and Joe will both have several double-figure scoring games under their belts before the OOC ends.

Did anyone think GGG's offense was well ran his last 2 years here? I sure didn't.

[Topshock]

One other note to complain about production ... how do you mess up a freaking banner drop?

Excellent question!!

A few more:

How can you have a Dance Cam with music played so softly that many can't even hear it?

How can the pneumatic shirt launcher only propel shirts 3-4 feet?

How can you not even bother to put half time stats on the scoreboard?

Why would scores from other games not be put on the scoreboard at halftime?

[SubGod22]

On another positive note, the dance team has some talent

[Shocker_Power]

I'm one of maybe one person on this board that liked and will defend Coach Fogler at every turn.

Two persons!

[ShockerExpress]

The other thing I was thinking this morning: Are there some that still think we’re going to be worse on the front line this year than last? I seem to remember that being floated a lot in the preseason.

I disagree.

[Stickboy46]

Excellent question!!

A few more:

How can you have a Dance Cam with music played so softly that many can't even hear it?

How can the pneumatic shirt launcher only propel shirts 3-4 feet?

How can you not even bother to put half time stats on the scoreboard?

Why would scores from other games not be put on the scoreboard at halftime?

oooo i forgot about that .. we were laughing so hard ... while being embarassed at that. We have a legit engineering school .. yet we screw that up?