Wichita State vs. JSU Game Thread 11-9-21

[ShockingButTrue]

Count me as a guy who would prefer Monzy and Joe even those minutes out. I really liked Monzy last year and wish he would have played more over Trey Wade, also. Seems like he might be in the doghouse or something.

He takes really bad shots.

But he did contribute some good things yesterday.

[WuDrWu]

I'm one of maybe one person on this board that liked and will defend Coach Fogler at every turn. Eddie would have run a fake double door screen with a skip back pass for a wide open 15 foot wing shot, and we'd have missed it. And then after the game he would have extolled the virtue of how well the play worked and how pleased he was with the execution and the shot, even though we missed it.

I know Kel Varnsen didn't like it, I know ShockerFever didn't like it, I have no doubt many others didn't like it, and honestly I didn't like it.....but THAT play is a lot more what basketball is today than what "we" like and appreciate. I said this after the exhibition game. This is just the way the game is played today. We don't have to like it, but if we plan to support and enjoy the product, it behooves us to at least accept it. I'm not saying a step back 33 foot shot is always the best option, but in crunch time, we're going to put the ball in our future NBAer's hands and let him go to work and do what he does best. So far he's batting 1.000

[ShockingButTrue]

We run a DDMO offense for uber athletic players, without uber athletic players. We’re not bad, but we don’t have that type of personnel.

GM had about 50-75 sets to run. I’m not sure how many sets (meaning not a part of the motion offense) we saw outside of a play or two. Maybe I’m wrong.

You're wrong. Did you listen to IB after the game? He addressed the O with the team at halftime and stated (paraphrasing a little) "if you don't run our sets like we practice you are going to the bench, especially if you act like you don't hear me."

The offense was noticeably more cohesive in the second half.

[Topshock]

I agree that the last 20 seconds was NBA style, give it to your stud and let him make a play.

If people want to blame IB for that, then lets blame GM for the years of never making a play at the end of games. I remember our group committing several times that no-one could remember the last time we made a last second shot to win a game. Well guess what we just did.

[ShockingButTrue]

I'm one of maybe one person on this board that liked and will defend Coach Fogler at every turn. Eddie would have run a fake double door screen with a skip back pass for a wide open 15 foot wing shot, and we'd have missed it. And then after the game he would have extolled the virtue of how well the play worked and how pleased he was with the execution and the shot, even though we missed it.

I'm guessing you didn't hear IB after the game either when he specifically addressed, without prompting, the lack of just about everything on offense in the first half?

I'll defend IB every bit as much as you'll proudly defend a Coach who did nothing with his own players while here, because he left those players for another guy to Coach. He could have a least thanked the prior Coach for leaving him those competitors. Dean Smith would have had the class to do so. No?

[ShockingButTrue]

I agree that the last 20 seconds was NBA style, give it to your stud and let him make a play.

If people want to blame IB for that, then lets blame GM for the years of never making a play at the end of games. I remember our group committing several times that no-one could remember the last time we made a last second shot to win a game. Well guess what we just did.

Bravo!

Case closed.

[Kel Varnsen]

I'm one of maybe one person on this board that liked and will defend Coach Fogler at every turn. Eddie would have run a fake double door screen with a skip back pass for a wide open 15 foot wing shot, and we'd have missed it. And then after the game he would have extolled the virtue of how well the play worked and how pleased he was with the execution and the shot, even though we missed it.

I know Kel Varnsen didn't like it, I know ShockerFever didn't like it, I have no doubt many others didn't like it, and honestly I didn't like it.....but THAT play is a lot more what basketball is today than what "we" like and appreciate. I said this after the exhibition game. This is just the way the game is played today. We don't have to like it, but if we plan to support and enjoy the product, it behooves us to at least accept it. I'm not saying a step back 33 foot shot is always the best option, but in crunch time, we're going to put the ball in our future NBAer's hands and let him go to work and do what he does best. So far he's batting 1.000

No, you're exactly right. Players make end of game plays. A set can help, but if a player doesn't execute it or misses, it doesn't matter. And the game has changed.

I remember not being happy with Fred for doing the same thing Tyson did (and missing, at least once but maybe twice) against GW in Hawaii. Drove me nuts then and drives me nuts now.

Why can't we just have Brad Stevens draw up a few end-of-game sets for us? Surely he's available as a consultant.

[Woodrow]

No, you're exactly right. Players make end of game plays. A set can help, but if a player doesn't execute it or misses, it doesn't matter. And the game has changed.

I remember not being happy with Fred for doing the same thing Tyson did (and missing, at least once but maybe twice) against GW in Hawaii. Drove me nuts then and drives me nuts now.

Why can't we just have Brad Stevens draw up a few end-of-game sets for us? Surely he's available as a consultant.

While we're at it can we get Gordon Hayward on our team to shoot it.

[Arizona Shocker]

I was bitter just like most of you in the first half. But I knew this team would come back. Remember, it’s one game and our first game that counts. Clearly some jitters. And as Coach IB said in the post game, he told the team at half you either run out sets or you go to the bench. 2nd half was better and give JSU some credit too. They don’t suck.

ETN is a cold blooded assassin. He is playing chess, you all are playing checkers. Thank God he is taking our last shot instead of Alterique Gilbert! Tyson practices this type of shot all the time. He plays D, and he is slowly moving into the PG role as evident when Porter comes in the game. The fact that we get to watch him one more year is a blessing. He is a great human to boot.

Final Note: Our university was on ESPN getting free press because of ETN. Think about that.

[pinstripers]

Tied, at home, I don't mind it

[moshock]

No, you're exactly right. Players make end of game plays. A set can help, but if a player doesn't execute it or misses, it doesn't matter. And the game has changed.

I remember not being happy with Fred for doing the same thing Tyson did (and missing, at least once but maybe twice) against GW in Hawaii. Drove me nuts then and drives me nuts now.

Why can't we just have Brad Stevens draw up a few end-of-game sets for us? Surely he's available as a consultant.

Fred also took a guarded fade away 3 (and missed) at the end of the Kentucky game a few years ago. IIRC Cle was standing wide open calling for the ball.

It was obvious what TE was going to - had he missed - we were headed to overtime with the momentum. If we were down by 1 - I would like to think he would have drove and tried to score and or gotten fouled.

I'll take the win.

[SubGod22]

The band also needs more practice. That was one of the most painful Star Spangled Banner's I've ever heard. And it wasn't just that one song. They need to tighten things up.

Pohto is a stud.

Dex has to knock down those wide open looks.

Mo needs to never dribble more than once max. He also needs to learn how to put a body on someone and not to throw himself into a defender and flail like some 5'6", 102lb weakling.

Ty is Ty

Ricky has a huge ceiling. If he keeps things under control he's going to be a major baller.

Joe was steady.

I liked what I saw from Porter. He does a lot of little things that make us better.

Qua has to learn this isn't DII.

I like Monzy and felt he played much more under control that what I recall from much of last year.

When they do the dance cam, it would help if the crowd can actually hear the music.

Props to dude for hitting the half court shot during some timeout promo

Attendance wasn't great but the crowd was good.

Pohto was sick? Can't wait to see him healthy.

Lots of potential, lots to work on.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Wow! Not pretty but it was a W. Jax State is a good (not great) team of experienced dudes who hustle their butts off and can shoot. Good thing they turned the ball over 17 times because it could have been a disaster.

WSU needs to figure the offense out and thankfully they looked much better in the second half because I do not want to see it come down to a 35' logo three to win it. No flow in the first half with guys just dribbling around looking lost, likely due in part to the Gamecock D.

Mo has regressed big time. He looked lost most of the time. He spends too much time arguing every little ticky tack foul. Stop throwing your hands in the air every time someone touches you and focus on basketball. The grimace and hands in the air thing after every call is not a good look. And, stop shooting the frickin' three!! I don't care how much you worked on it in practice.

Porter looked much better than Grant. I know we all have a love affair with Qua and it was just one game, but it wasn't even close. Qua had a few moments of Sherfield-itis driving to the basket and getting stuffed. The offense ran much more smoothly with Porter in there.

TE is a beast and plays like a pro. Always under control even when they are smothering him.

Good to see Dex get off to a good start.

Pohto looked fantastic and can do a little of everything. Didn't have that typical true freshman deer in the headlights look on the court. He's gonna be a good one.

[Kel Varnsen]

Fred also took a guarded fade away 3 (and missed) at the end of the Kentucky game a few years ago. IIRC Cle was standing wide open calling for the ball.

The Kentucky game was much different as we only had a couple seconds left on the clock. I had no problem with that.

[Shockm]

I'm going to go a different route with Tyson's final, game winning, last second shot.

For Tyson, it was a decent look if you compare it to his other looks. They were guarding him tight, no matter if he had the ball or if he didn't have the ball (if you don't believe me, watch the game again). JSU had some very athletic guards who were on our guys like glue. JSU were well coached. JSU was prepared for our offense because it was pretty much the same as last year, with pick and rolls, and/or plays trying to get the ball to Tyson with screens. We do not have a strong post game underneath the basket (Jamie would have eaten up the JSU post defense because it was 1 on 1, and our team didn't show the ability to drive the ball, and finish shots.

I liked Tyson's shot from the following POV.

It was a shot that he took facing the basket. Very few of his shots were open shots during the game. Several of his shots were twisting shots after receiving the pass moving away from the basket, with screens (once or twice after receiving two screens) from 20+ feet, and as I said before, he had a guy on him most of the time, even 25 feet from the basket. The shot Tyson took was a shot where he was facing the basket the whole time.