21-22 Wishlist

[Shockm]

His recruiting hasn't picked up apparently, but there is a 6'8 kid at HCC, Matt Mayers, averaging 20.5 pts and 11.3 rebounds in 27 minutes. Last season he only played 6.5 minutes/gm and averaged 3.1 and 2.4.

VerbalCommits shows offers from Manhattan and Robert Morris. Hutch is currently ranked 25th.

With Jaden Okon playing on that HCJC team, I can't think they don't know about Mayer. He sounds like a Stretch Forward at the Div. 1 level who can also rebound. A good shooter who is 81% from the free throw line, and 33.3% from 3. We will see if there is any interest from either side.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Sounds like an intriguing prospect for sure!

[apkbaum]

Nm

[Aargh]

I didn't read the entire thread, but was impressed with the lack of thought and memory in the 6 or so pages I read.

When the offense has to be taught from scratch to 6 new players because 7 left the program, and practices are cut short, you are not going to see wrinkles put in. Adding wrinkles to a set that's not fully understood only makes things worse. Marshall's system is complex. It generally took new players well into their first year to have a good understanding of how it worked. Of the 5 starters this year, it was the PG who had to learn the system.

There's been a lot of criticism of coaching for the way the offense was run. The PG would dribble back and forth for a while trying to see if he could drive, then a high ball screen would be called, and the PG wouldn't use it effectively. There was no concern about defending a pick and pop, because none of the post players could score past 2'. Pick and rolls were easily defended. When the ball screen didn't produce any advantage the ball got passed around the perimeter until someone took a forced 3, or someone was intentionally left open to tempt them to take a shot.

That's EXACTLY the offense the Shox have been running for years. There were never any wrinkles put in it for years. It worked really well with an NBA PG, an NBA SG, an NBA stretch 4, and a post who could hit reasonably well from 3. When the personnel to run the offense aren't on the roster, yelling at the players isn't going to make the offense run better.

Last year the PG's dribbled back and forth looking for an opening. They didn't find an opening, called for a high ball screen, which was blown up by either a bad screen or a wide use of it. Then they passed the ball around the perimeter until someone took a jacked 3. There's a lot of demand for holding the players accountable when they make mistakes. How'd that work out last year? Half the team left the program.

Midtgaard just went up against an AA post who's a candidate for national PoY and had a respectable game.
Sherfield didn't dribble back and forth for 15 seconds in Nevada's offense.
Burton was used effectively by TT - role player wing.

That kind of blows up the theory that Marshall was a master recruiter and adjusted his game plans to the strengths of the players he recruited. He didn't. He ran the same thing that worked when he had VanVleet, Baker, Early and (yes) Orukpe, who allowed Fred and Ron to gamble on D.

Narshall is the winningest coach in WSU history, but he's not near Ralph Miller's level. Miller coached in the #1 conference in the country. Marshall took a pre-season top-10 program into the AAC and couldn't win a conference championship. IB took a team picked 7th in the league (not the nation) and won a conference championship. SN'ers are complaining that the team played offense EXACTLY the way the tam played offense under Marshall.

Back to the original topic. We need a long and athletic post. Preferably a Fr. We've got one (maybe two) years to develop that player before he's needed for significant minutes. We need a PG in the worst possible way. From the recruiting last year I thought the staff thought Chaunce could be groomed as a PG. Multiple years of recruiting "combo guards" who "could play" point have not produced good results.

[ShockerFever]

tl;dr

Other than the part that Aargh just dismissed Marshall as the greatest Shocker coach of all time. Moron gonna moron.

[Aargh]

tl;dr

Other than the part that Aargh just dismissed Marshall as the greatest Shocker coach of all time. Moron gonna moron.

So, you think that Marshall in the 6th-ranked baskball conference is better than Miller in the #1 ranked conference? I'm going to take #1 or #2 in the #1 ranked conference over what the Shox have now.

[Aargh]

tl;dr

Other than the part that Aargh just dismissed Marshall as the greatest Shocker coach of all time. Moron gonna moron.

You need to go buy a mirror. 1st or 2nd place finish in the #1 national conference beats winning the MVC or finishing in the top half of the AAC.

[wufan]

So, you think that Marshall in the 6th-ranked baskball conference is better than Miller in the #1 ranked conference? I'm going to take #1 or #2 in the #1 ranked conference over what the Shox have now.

I’m going to take the NCAA and NIT record of Marshall for a sustained period, and it’s not even close.

[SB Shock]

Narshall is the winningest coach in WSU history, but he's not near Ralph Miller's level. Miller coached in the #1 conference in the country. Marshall took a pre-season top-10 program into the AAC and couldn't win a conference championship.

Ralph Miller vs Gregg Marshall

1. Record

Ralph Miller 220-133 (0.623)
GGG 337-119 (0.739)

Winner - GGG

2. Top 20 Season Rankings

Ralph Miller - 7 (High 4)
GGG - 8 (High 2)

Winner GGG

3. Post-Season

Ralph Miller - 4 Appearance, Elite Eight
GGG - 7 Appearances, Final 4

Winner GGG

4. Post-Season Record

Ralph Miller - (1-4)
GGG (10-7)

Winner GGG


I think it is safe to say that GGG was the greatest basketball coach in the History of WSU.

[ShockerFever]

Aargh’s hate for Marshall is apparent. It’s just strange you never heard about it up until this year. Shades must’ve been in the way.

[ABC]

Aargh’s hate for Marshall is apparent. It’s just strange you never heard about it up until this year. Shades must’ve been in the way.

This isn't an exact analogy but Aargh's myopic focus on Marshall reminds me of this:

Robert the Bruce : Now, you've achieved more than anyone ever dreamed. But, fighting these odds, it looks like rage, not courage. William Wallace : It's well beyond rage.

[Dan]

To Aargh's defense he is saying the Miller did it in a tougher MVC conference and 3Gs record is inflated by playing in a weak MVC. Regardless of that, the postseason results are pretty glaring.

[TheShocktocles]

Ralph Miller vs Gregg Marshall

1. Record

Ralph Miller 220-133 (0.623)
GGG 337-119 (0.739)

Winner - GGG

2. Top 20 Season Rankings

Ralph Miller - 7 (High 4)
GGG - 8 (High 2)

Winner GGG

3. Post-Season

Ralph Miller - 4 Appearance, Elite Eight
GGG - 7 Appearances, Final 4

Winner GGG

4. Post-Season Record

Ralph Miller - (1-4)
GGG (10-7)

Winner GGG


I think it is safe to say that GGG was the greatest basketball coach in the History of WSU.

Thank you for doing this. There is no question Coach Marshall was the best.

[ShockerFever]

To Aargh's defense he is saying the Miller did it in a tougher MVC conference and 3Gs record is inflated by playing in a weak MVC. Regardless of that, the postseason results are pretty glaring.

I know what he was saying but he’s still completely wrong. As you stated, the postseason records and results are laughably different.

Didn’t you only have to win 1 game to get into the Elite 8 back then?

[Aargh]

I know what he was saying but he’s still completely wrong. As you stated, the postseason records and results are laughably different.

Didn’t you only have to win 1 game to get into the Elite 8 back then?

That's right. Because there were only 16, not 68 teams that got into the NCAA tourney. Comparing post-season records is bogus. Comparing W/L records between Miller and Marshall is equally flawed. When there are 2 or 3 top-20 teams on your schedule every year and you play each one of them twice is a little tougher than playing Evansville twice.

I don't hate Marshall. I just don't put him on a pedestal, and some posters believe that's required. I've been saying for years that there were holes in recruiting classes and I've been commenting for years that attempting to turn combo guards into PG's is a failed effort.