Coach Gregg Marshall Investigation

[shock]

Or maybe it's the "no more hamburgers required" mentality that prevented him from going after the full $15M he was owed? Maybe not wanting to put his family, a community he loves, and players he loves through a potentially nasty and very public court process was worth $7.5M to make it go away?

Regardless, there's a massive difference in being satisfied with your SALARY, ie income with more to follow, ie predictable future cash flow, ie knowing you have time to make lifestyle adjustments if the floor falls out; versus being satisfied with a severance check, ie no further income, ie no future earnings, ie no future cash flow, ie the floor has fallen out.

Common sense has been tried in the court of public opinion and is now banned in Shockernet.

[SB Shock]

The last sentence seems suspect to me. I recall that a opposing player got beaned in the on deck circle by WSU pitcher under the instruction of said coaching staff.

We u just outed yourself as NOT A SHOCKER FAN, but a troll.

Any Shocker fan knowledgeable about Shocker baseball would never screw up the narrative that bad.

Molina wasn’t standing on the on-deck circle, but beside the batting box and there were no order.

And finally Molina is a pedophile so in retrospect it was Karma.

[SB Shock]

Why are there still people out there that think we’d be in a better position right now if we were still in the Valley?

It is idiotic. Not would WSU not be in a better position, it would be just bad basketball.

[ShockRef]

Or maybe it's the "no more hamburgers required" mentality that prevented him from going after the full $15M he was owed? Maybe not wanting to put his family, a community he loves, and players he loves through a potentially nasty and very public court process was worth $7.5M to make it go away?

Regardless, there's a massive difference in being satisfied with your SALARY, ie income with more to follow, ie predictable future cash flow, ie knowing you have time to make lifestyle adjustments if the floor falls out; versus being satisfied with a severance check, ie no further income, ie no future earnings, ie no future cash flow, ie the floor has fallen out.

Kung,

Maybe he was worried about pulling a muscle carrying out all of those bags full of cash?
Let's see...a bag carrying $48000.00 cash every two weeks could have a tendency to cause muscle fatigue. If you doubled the amount, we're talking serious lbs. and possible strain.
After all, if you don't have your health, what do you have?

That is all.

[ShockTalk]

Or maybe it's the "no more hamburgers required" mentality that prevented him from going after the full $15M he was owed? Maybe not wanting to put his family, a community he loves, and players he loves through a potentially nasty and very public court process was worth $7.5M to make it go away?

Regardless, there's a massive difference in being satisfied with your SALARY, ie income with more to follow, ie predictable future cash flow, ie knowing you have time to make lifestyle adjustments if the floor falls out; versus being satisfied with a severance check, ie no further income, ie no future earnings, ie no future cash flow, ie the floor has fallen out.

I have a real problem with all this coming out 5 years later. First, waiting 5+ years for this to come out could have meant other players facing the same problems (if as stated). A few have mentioned that the rest of coaching staff may also be somewhat culpable for not "standing up" at the time. Well, so were any and all players who never said anything at the time until this year as well whether they stayed in the program or not. Most of all, Shaq. He weighed the pros and cons of saying something at that time. He also weighed the pro and cons of stating falsehoods to reporters back while he was here as if their were no BIG problem. Everyone, including Marshall, were looking out for their own best interest at the time and future players may have had to face the same problems for it.

As for Marshall, he's a big boy and knew his responsibilities of what is OK and what is crossing the line. Per his statement, he never came close to ever crossing that line. From what I've seen over the years, I have a real hard time believing that. Concerned about future earnings and your family, don't do anything to jeopardize that. If you do, be a man of principal and own up to it right then and there. To the player, the team, and the school. I seriously doubt anything really bad would have happened to Marshall if that had been done. It appears that none of this happened at the time, so here we are.

The current players came here for Marshall. They're not getting him, so they are in a sense paying for it. It will be determined whether the program will suffer. Like it or not, WSU has a black eye over this. Will it hurt recruiting? Money that could have gone into the program are now going to Marshall as a parting gift.

Too much time has past and too many others are now responsible as well. Frankly, I wouldn't have fired him, but demanded oversight. If he didn't like it, he's free to walk away.

[Shockm]

There was one way to handle it. When Marshall went on job interviews and came back demanding a raise, let him go. Say it wasn't in the best interests of the athletic department to attempt to match the salary he was offered. The problem that was known is gone, and there's no buyout involved, Then go hire someone who wants to coach a team coming off some great NCAA runs. Probably lose some players and not win as many games the next year,but the smoldering issue in the locker room is gone. That would upset some boosters, but how upset are those guys now that they are forking up $7.75 million for Marshall to not coach the Shox.

This is a highly improbable and even laughable scenario. After being brought to a national stage, Bardo and these multi-millionaire boosters had big plans for the university. Continued national relevance, the American Conference instead of the Missouri Valley Conference, the Innovation Campus, and the city of Wichita hung in the balance. Sexton had very little input into this. Our huge donors, Bardo, and their visions had everything to do with the contract.

We we will have a better feel for how the boosters feel by the end of the year. Our boosters have always been willing to step up with necessary funding for the good of the community. But we no longer have Bardo’s leadership.

[Kung Wu]

Kung,

Maybe he was worried about pulling a muscle carrying out all of those bags full of cash?
Let's see...a bag carrying $48000.00 cash every two weeks could have a tendency to cause muscle fatigue. If you doubled the amount, we're talking serious lbs. and possible strain.
After all, if you don't have your health, what do you have?

That is all.

Hahaha, okay that was funny!

[Kung Wu]

As for Marshall, he's a big boy and knew his responsibilities of what is OK and what is crossing the line. Per his statement, he never came close to ever crossing that line.

I don't know that he said he "never cam close". He said he never struck a player.

Regardless, he believes he did not cross the line.

Concerned about future earnings and your family, don't do anything to jeopardize that.

And he believes he did not.

If you do, be a man of principal and own up to it right then and there. To the player, the team, and the school.

Sure, but from his perspective there is nothing to own up to.

I seriously doubt anything really bad would have happened to Marshall if that had been done.

What had been done? If he didn't cross the line, there was no action for him to take other than to say, "I never crossed the line."

Everything your pining for puts your faith in the words of a scorned teenager over the words of a professional adult that was responsible for correcting said teenager's bad behavior (not showing up to practices, undercutting his own players, claiming he was injured all the time to get out of fitness training, etc). You probably tend to believe it because ******* said there were 7 witnesses, but we now know that's a mis-truth. Ron said a few. Ron was considered a witness but was not. How many more of the 7 witnesses didn't actually _see_ Shaq get "punched"? Based on Ron's interview, my guess is all of them. If anything, I'm becoming more and more certain that Shaq got angry-father popped on the noggin'. Not punched. Just a "what the hell junior?!" slap on the head.

[OregonShocker]

There never was a way to handle it "correctly". There was never a way to "handle" it - let alone do it correctly. Try to fire Marshall "for cause" in 2015? Absolute total fan revolt. Try to tell Marshall he needs to straighten up his act and apologize to a player? I'm going to speculate that was suggested, but never happened.

Anybody remember The Incredible Hulk. The really nice, gentle-natured guy who everybody loved - until he got angry. "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry". AD probably didn't want to cross that line with Marshall.

There was one way to handle it. When Marshall went on job interviews and came back demanding a raise, let him go. Say it wasn't in the best interests of the athletic department to attempt to match the salary he was offered. The problem that was known is gone, and there's no buyout involved, Then go hire someone who wants to coach a team coming off some great NCAA runs. Probably lose some players and not win as many games the next year,but the smoldering issue in the locker room is gone. That would upset some boosters, but how upset are those guys now that they are forking up $7.75 million for Marshall to not coach the Shox.

In any business, you don't want incompetent or inexperienced people in critical positions. Sexton was incompetent. Boatright was inexperienced. Neither had the chops to handle the situation they found themselves in.

I agree with this, but I think there still may have been a revolt if he left for, say, Alabama and an effort wasn't made to keep him. By that time, I think they believe they had swept it deep enough under the rug no one would ever find it.

[ShockTalk]

I don't know that he said he "never cam close". He said he never struck a player.

Regardless, he believes he did not cross the line.



And he believes he did not.




Sure, but from his perspective there is nothing to own up to.



What had been done? If he didn't cross the line, there was no action for him to take other than to say, "I never crossed the line."

Everything your pining for puts your faith in the words of a scorned teenager over the words of a professional adult that was responsible for correcting said teenager's bad behavior (not showing up to practices, undercutting his own players, claiming he was injured all the time to get out of fitness training, etc). You probably tend to believe it because ******* said there were 7 witnesses, but we now know that's a mis-truth. Ron said a few. Ron was considered a witness but was not. How many more of the 7 witnesses didn't actually _see_ Shaq get "punched"? Based on Ron's interview, my guess is all of them. If anything, I'm becoming more and more certain that Shaq got angry-father popped on the noggin'. Not punched. Just a "what the hell junior?!" slap on the head.

To your first point and last. He said he never struck a player. I never said anything about a punch. I don't know what it was. Nevertheless, a "Gibbs" slap on the back of the head is not striking someone is my book. However, an angry-father pop on the noggin' probably constitutes a strike (which he said he never, ever did).

The less the "strike" (which he unequivocally, absolutely leaves no doubt he ever did), the less the problem. Particularly from a player's stand point whether you were the one popped on the noggin' or another player who saw it. However, something happened enough to warrant the players to ask Fred to represent them, which he did.

Second, it doesn't really matter what Marshall thought about not crossing a line, didn't do anything he was concerned about that would jeopardize his family, or be concerned about, because it appears others did. If Marshall feels he's totally right, fine. Go to war on it. Confront the problem and be done with it. Air it all out. Just because he didn't believe he crossed a line, doesn't mean he didn't.

All your doing is putting faith in someone who we've all seen explode more than once. The incident with Zach and Shaq certainly sounds like something that most any coach would explode about. Now add fHCGM's quick temper. Your putting your faith in one who has millions of dollars to potential lose. I'm guessing Marshall has more reasons to "fudge" the truth than Shaq (not that he didn't do something that deserved what he got).

[WeWillShockU]

We u just outed yourself as NOT A SHOCKER FAN, but a troll.

Any Shocker fan knowledgeable about Shocker baseball would never screw up the narrative that bad.

Molina wasn’t standing on the on-deck circle, but beside the batting box and there were no order.

And finally Molina is a pedophile so in retrospect it was Karma.

You can think what you like but Coach K admitted that he told his pitchers to throw close to batters doing what Molina was doing.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/oklahoman.com/article/2903490/1999-beaning-story-wont-go-away/amp

This is a black mark on WSU reputation.

You call me a troll. That is laughable.
I have been going to Shocker BB games since 1970. Cheese Johnson was a player when I was in college at WSU. I went to multiple baseball regionals both home and away. The university has thousands of my dollars over many years. My son got his engineering degree from WSU. I’ve had BB season tickets for 6 or 7 years even though I live in Topeka. I have only missed a handful of games during this time. I’ve been to the Bahamas, Hawaii and Charleston for BB tournaments. I have went to away games multiple times in conference play. I went to the last 10 valley tournaments in St Louis. I’m hardly a troll. I’m a proud Shocker but that doesn’t mean I accept wrong doing by players and coaches of WSU.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

One thing I wonder about is Shaq’s motivation for coming forward now. Seems interesting that he didn’t say a word while continuing to play for Marshall and get better and get exposure. Then continued to stay quiet while he was able to play overseas presumably at least in part because of the exposure he received from WSU and Marshall. Then all of a sudden when WSU couldn’t do much more for his playing career he comes forward. Seems odd that he would move back to Wichita also and try to start camps and put down roots when it carried so many bad memories. That is a question I would like to ask.

[Aargh]

KungWu, The problem with your position is that if your version is the way it happened, then WSU would release the investigation from the law firm. The report would show that *******'s article is a gross exaggeration, and Marshall would still be the coach. The fact that WSU was willing to pay $7.75 mill to make the situation go away is evidence that Marshall was - let's say - "less than saintly".

It's obvious the report from the investigation did not clear Marshall. Paying $7.75 mill for nothing was WSU's best option in the opinion of WSU's legal team. Marshall gave up $7.25 mill based on what was in that report. WSU paid $7.75 mill based on what was in that report. The only way that exit agreement happens is if both Marshall's lawyers and WSU's lawyers agree that "a line was crossed" and WSU was complicit in not addressing the situation sooner.

Marshall probably feels that he never "crossed that line", but it seems his legal team didn't agree with him or they would have insisted on the entire $15 mill or would have gone to court to get it if WSU wouldn't agree to pay it.

I'll go a step further. If the slap on the back of Shaq's head to get his attention was that or a punch - if that was an isolated incident, that's not a $7.75 mill hit on the basketball program. If nothing happened since then, it can be stated that there was a problem, it was addressed and handled, and it hasn't occurred again. That didn't happen. Sometimes listening to what isn't said is more informative than listening to what is said.

WSU was willing to pay $7.75 mill, but they weren't willing (or able) to say it was an isolated incident that was handled and hasn't occurred since.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

KungWu, The problem with your position is that if your version is the way it happened, then WSU would release the investigation from the law firm. The report would show that *******'s article is a gross exaggeration, and Marshall would still be the coach. The fact that WSU was willing to pay $7.75 mill to make the situation go away is evidence that Marshall was - let's say - "less than saintly".

It's obvious the report from the investigation did not clear Marshall. Paying $7.75 mill for nothing was WSU's best option in the opinion of WSU's legal team. Marshall gave up $7.25 mill based on what was in that report. WSU paid $7.75 mill based on what was in that report. The only way that exit agreement happens is if both Marshall's lawyers and WSU's lawyers agree that "a line was crossed" and WSU was complicit in not addressing the situation sooner.

Marshall probably feels that he never "crossed that line", but it seems his legal team didn't agree with him or they would have insisted on the entire $15 mill or would have gone to court to get it if WSU wouldn't agree to pay it.

I'll go a step further. If the slap on the back of Shaq's head to get his attention was that or a punch - if that was an isolated incident, that's not a $7.75 mill hit on the basketball program. If nothing happened since then, it can be stated that there was a problem, it was addressed and handled, and it hasn't occurred again. That didn't happen. Sometimes listening to what isn't said is more informative than listening to what is said.

WSU was willing to pay $7.75 mill, but they weren't willing (or able) to say it was an isolated incident that was handled and hasn't occurred since.

*******

[SB Shock]

You can think what you like but Coach K admitted that he told his pitchers to throw close to batters doing what Molina was doing.

Come on. How many times have WSU pitchers hit a hitter during warmups in Kemnitz career. If he taught his pitchers to hit the batter during warmups, he sucked at that instruction - because it only happened one. The fact is his quote was taken out of context that he teaches his pitchers to be aggressive and to pitch inside.

You call me a troll. That is laughable.
I have been going to Shocker BB games since 1970.

Well then you are not a baseball fan and not very well informed.