Coach Gregg Marshall Investigation

[pinstripers]

Doc is correct. What HCGM has accomplished here would have been unimaginable 15 years ago.

[Atxshoxfan]

Fair play. Trying to push your buttons. I still think smacking people around is never a way to build respect. People think they turned out right because they were hit but more likely in spite of it.

To get thread back on point. There are coaches who recruit thourobreds and let them run. (Gene Smithson). There are coaches who get less athletic but teach them to be successful (GM). Then there are those who recruit gifted athletes and teach them. (Saban). All others are losing coaches. Which category does WSU need? Obviously not going to recruit 5 star kids on a consistent basis, so a teacher is mandatory. Less athletic kids want discipline and learning even on the court..

[RajFaheen]

The racist PB&J debacle mentioned that Erik Stevenson passed up an open shot.

The tale would have been much more believable if it said "Erik Stevenson chucked up a brick while being double-teamed and heavily guarded."

[shoxlax]

The racist PB&J debacle mentioned that Erik Stevenson passed up an open shot.

The tale would have been much more believable if it said "Erik Stevenson chucked up a brick while being double-teamed and heavily guarded."

Don’t know who you are but you are winning my fandom. Your avatar alone makes me laugh

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

Unless the old timers still have eligibility and can hoop, it doesn't matter what the old timers think about corporal punishment with respect to the WSU basketball program. I don't think corporal punishment is popular with the players we are trying to recruit so I'm not sure what all these "we survived" stories have to do with the topic at hand.

Great comment, I **probably** still have my eligibility, but 1) would not want to go back to school (unless it was something I was wanting to do to make a difference in the world, 2) even if I could, who would want me? Knees are shot so I can't play basketball, 3) I think all of us have worked for 'that' bully during their careers at least once. It's not fun, and if you don't report to them, it's generally an exercise in getting someone else to deliver the bad news and watch the subsequent rocket launch.

[Stickboy46]

The racist PB&J debacle mentioned that Erik Stevenson passed up an open shot.

The tale would have been much more believable if it said "Erik Stevenson chucked up a brick while being double-teamed and heavily guarded."

*then proceeded to foul someone on the ensuing fast break opportunity that was opened up by the out of rhythm shot.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Just curious if some of you would support bringing back public lashings?

In the debate of the underlying issue behind the investigation, I think this is a fantastic point being made in the form of a question. Someone else mentioned burning and drowning witches.

Something we all have to keep in mind is just because something was OK decades or generations ago doesn't mean it was right then or that it should be OK now. With all due respect to John Stuart Mills, the concept that the ends always justify the means gives scant opportunity for the advancement and expansion of human dignity, values, and morality. I think this philosophical tug of war is responsible for most of what our society has been struggling with recently--Me Too, Trumpism, racial injustice, you name it. Though I clearly have an opinion, this is more observation than argument.

With that said, I want to go on record that I support HCGM to the extent no incontrovertible evidence of physical abuse exists. So don't start throwing rocks at me. Marshall is old school, for sure. His methods aren't for everyone, and it won't be many years until those methods simply will not work or be acceptable by society. That may not be such a bad thing.

[Shockm]

In the debate of the underlying issue behind the investigation, I think this is a fantastic point being made in the form of a question. Someone else mentioned burning and drowning witches.

Something we all have to keep in mind is just because something was OK decades or generations ago doesn't mean it was right then or that it should be OK now. With all due respect to John Stuart Mills, the concept that the ends always justify the means gives scant opportunity for the advancement and expansion of human dignity, values, and morality. I think this philosophical tug of war is responsible for most of what our society has been struggling with recently--Me Too, Trumpism, racial injustice, you name it. Though I clearly have an opinion, this is more observation than argument.

With that said, I want to go on record that I support HCGM to the extent no incontrovertible evidence of physical abuse exists. So don't start throwing rocks at me. Marshall is old school, for sure. His methods aren't for everyone, and it won't be many years until those methods simply will not work or be acceptable by society. That may not be such a bad thing.

This stuff still happens all the time. I saw Tom Izzo put his hands on a player and (jacked him in the chest) during a nationally televised game. I have read how much verbal abuse he gives his players. He wins, he cares, he has discipline, and he isn't perfect. We all know that it happens all the time in practice with him and other coaches like him. Probably much more than we know. All it takes is an angry player who has his feelings hurt and Izzo is gone. It doesn't matter if he has coached 35 years and graduated many kids through college (who are likely not to care about academics) or not. Is the world changing into snowflakes? Too many kids to day are indulged and given too much. I would say yes, the world is changing, and not for the better.

[Shockm]

“Our sires’ age was worse than our grandsires’. We, their sons, are more worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt.”

Book III of Odes, Horace
circa 20 BC

While this is off of the issue being discussed, it does pertain to your post and how true it is. I'm not saying I have all of the answers to why but your post is truer than you know.

It's really quite sad. The young kids can't play because their parents, relatives, or parents friends can't behave. This wasn't a kid but it wasn't too long ago that he was a kid.

https://www.kansas.com/news/local/cr...246631258.html

[shock-it-to-me]

What’s sad is how every single issue in this country has now become polarized as a right versus left issue. Each side thinks they’re right and the other side is not only wrong but horrible people. We can’t even be Shocker fans together anymore.

[wichshock65]

Here is Sheldon Bailey's response to Coach Waterman for defending 3G.

[Shockm]

Here is Sheldon Bailey's response to Coach Waterman for defending 3G.

He went straight to the race issue. I’m not sure if that says something about Bailey or not.

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

He went straight to the race issue. I’m not sure if that says something about Bailey or not.

Says we need to have a serious discussion about race relations with our black brothers and sisters. It's a double standard to me. If it is OK for them to throw around derrogatory labels, then it should be OK for everyone to do this, or it's not ok for anyone to do it.

I am leaning towards no one should use these terms.

[DUShock]

An unrelated question to HCGM’s specific situation.

Why is it okay to call someone racist while using racists terms of equal or greater severity in the course of the discussion? I am seriously perplexed about this “do as I say, not as I do” hypocrisy that seems to to permeate all aspects of our society across all races and socio-economic stratus.

Whatever happens, Go Shocks!

[Shock Top]

Here is Sheldon Bailey's response to Coach Waterman for defending 3G.

Ah, the old “coon” play.

Where have I seen that before?