Wichita State vs East Carolina Game Thread

[ShockerFever]

Missed free throws by a person not shooting free throws well is indeed essentially a turnover. Especially when said player makes a conscious decision to bullrush into the lane without much control to draw contact.

[1979Shocker]

These would be really interesting numbers to have, but I'm not sure they exist. Could probably be parsed from the game logs with some effort.

It's still not a turnover.

Going 0-1 or 0-2 at the line would be the same as if you turned it over except if you get the offensive rebound, you get another possession to try it again.

Going 1-2 at the line (missing the first and making the second), is like half a possession.

Going 1-2 at the line (making the first and missing the second) is like half a possession with a chance for another possession with an offensive rebound.

Using the logic of each FT being half a possession, then making a 2FG would be one full possession and making a 3FG would be 1.5 full possessions.

On a TO, there is no chance of another possession.

[Cdizzle]

I just.

How many times you see a dude sitting on the bench cuz he in foul trouble? There is value in a called foul. Now, we can discuss if it's the percentage play. That's fair. That could be an interesting discussion. But equating it to a turnover is a complete non-starter to rational discussion.

[ShockTalk]

I'm sure there is probably errors in my thinking here, but let me lay this out.

JB has played 296 minutes and GS 299 minutes.

JB is tied with GS for the most FT attempts at 47. For Burton, that's just under 4 attempts per game (he's played only 12, GS 13).

JB has made 25 (3rd most on team) while GS (83% FT shooter) has made 39. That's just over 1 point per game difference or equal to 1/2 a TO.

JB playing the 1 and 3 has 47 assists while GS has 34 assists. Both have 24 TOs. That's at least 26 more points gained for JB or +2 ppg.

GS has 7 more steals than JB. If you think every possession is worth 1 point, that's 7 is worth a plus .5 ppg for GS. That gives GS a +1.5 and JB a +2.0.

I have no idea what a rebound is worth in points, but JB has 5 more than GS, 11 more offensive rebounds. JB also has 1 more block.

JB is shooting .467/.480, GS is shooting .435/.292. I don't believe JB's "bullrush" in the lane is creating TOs against him, but drawing fouls on opponents is a plus.

OK. Can anyone tell me there is a clear cut statistical difference between these two? I do know that JB has played more minutes, every game, over the last 4 games than he was previously getting.

[WuShock Reaper]

HEY YOU ALL!!!

Were 12 - 1
in case you forgot.

[Triticum aestivum L.]

Moops vs. Moors at this point. No one is changing the opinion of any other. And yes. We are 12-1!.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

[ShockAzs]

Here's the thing. Let me settle the debate right now, once and for all.

A missed free throw is not a turnover.
A turnover is not a missed free throw.
A missed free throw is a missed free throw.
A turnover is a turnover.

If I had the choice between the two, I would choose shooting a free throw nearly 100% of the time (unless somehow shooting free throws would prevent us winning the game. It's hard enough to come up with that scenario, so we can just disregard it as a statistical outlier of insignificance.)

Therefore a free throw opportunity is better than a turnover.

Now we can have an entire team of Michael Jordan's, but if they make bad basketball decisions (taking bad shots, passing the ball to the other team, or basically leading to actions that are more determental), then it doesn't matter how talented you are. But that's actually a different discussion than if a free throw is a turnover or not.

I know it really sucks when we need to score and we miss a front end, but at least we had a chance, like anything, and also hurt the other team with foul trouble.

[ShockAzs]

I can't believe I just typed all that.

[Shocker1976]

I can't believe I just typed all that.

I can't believe I have read all of these posts!

[shoxlax]

I'm sure there is probably errors in my thinking here, but let me lay this out.

JB has played 296 minutes and GS 299 minutes.

JB is tied with GS for the most FT attempts at 47. For Burton, that's just under 4 attempts per game (he's played only 12, GS 13).

JB has made 25 (3rd most on team) while GS (83% FT shooter) has made 39. That's just over 1 point per game difference or equal to 1/2 a TO.

JB playing the 1 and 3 has 47 assists while GS has 34 assists. Both have 24 TOs. That's at least 26 more points gained for JB or +2 ppg.

GS has 7 more steals than JB. If you think every possession is worth 1 point, that's 7 is worth a plus .5 ppg for GS. That gives GS a +1.5 and JB a +2.0.

I have no idea what a rebound is worth in points, but JB has 5 more than GS, 11 more offensive rebounds. JB also has 1 more block.

JB is shooting .467/.480, GS is shooting .435/.292. I don't believe JB's "bullrush" in the lane is creating TOs against him, but drawing fouls on opponents is a plus.

OK. Can anyone tell me there is a clear cut statistical difference between these two? I do know that JB has played more minutes, every game, over the last 4 games than he was previously getting.

I’m going to really convolute all of that by considering that JB’s 3 time was more effective than Dexter. His ability to play the 3 has been his most valuable asset to the team the last three games.

My concern is his minutes played will start to take its toll on him-happy to have Dexter back.

[Shocker Mama]

Having read through all of the free throw analysis, I sure hope the team hits them today!

[wichshock65]

Everyone just went to the locker room except for ES. He stayed on the floor shooting FT's. He must have been reading SN this week.