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Wichita State at Memphis Game Thread

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  • As much as I will get blasted for saying this, SHJ is about the only guy that can get his own shot. On top of that, we have almost no players (maybe Torres), that can consistently get the ball into the post. MM thinks he can get his shot, but that is one of his biggest weaknesses - trying to do too much. I’m by no means thinking that SHJ is the answer, but almost all of our freshmen guards are slow to think and are hesitant to make stuff happen. This is why SHJ is playing, IMO.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Shockm View Post

      Just come out and say it. FIRE HIM and we will turn it around. HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa
      Serious question here: Which is bigger? HCGM or WSU Basketball Program? Which is more important? Can one exist without the other? I guess I don't understand the defensiveness. And I'm not saying this to Shockm in particular, because we've all done it. Seems like there's a tendency to just blurt out "get rid of the coach" as a THROWAWAY blurb all too often when someone criticizes HCGM. I mean, went back and checked, a couple of pages, and I couldn't find a single thread where someone started the topic, and if so, shouldn't those comments be posted under that particular thread? Even in jest its poor taste. No one and I mean NOBODY wants that. Nobody has ever suggested it to my knowing (or reading). So why does the attitude of some (again not necessarily Shockm) become so jaded when someone wants to post a critique (even if it is ongoing) about a players decision making, or shot selection, or even a head coaches decision making? As a fan, I like to vent. If a product is unwatchable or flat unenjoyable to watch and I want it to be something more, I should be able to say so without impunity and certainly without Shockernet Member #5,074 going overboard and blurting out "We'll just fire him if you think you can do better." Again, there has never been a mention ANYWHERE by any fan of this statement. This board is for fans, to talk, (sometimes drink) and vent. If you're a player, a coach, an assistant coach, the girlfriend of a player, radio announcer or play by play guy...GO AWAY - you should not be here reading this. Ever. If you must, do so with a DUMP TRUCK OF SALT.

      This is Shockernet, we say stupid things on here ALL THE TIME. Many years ago I may have been a leader in many of the stupid things that were once posted (those would have been the Randy ball years and early Turgeon years for people who possibly joined during the HCGM era.)

      But really, nobody has ever started a thread and I see no reason anyone could have to start one called TIME TO REPLACE HCGM. Trust me, if an end product ever starts to go bad, there will be telltale signs. I see no signs. Just fans.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Shockm View Post

        Gregg obviously believes that his best chance of winning is to do it with Seniors getting minutes and plays. When he gives up on winning, he may do that but the results won't be different. We imo defeat Memphis if we play in Koch so still can have some wins (maybe 7-9 in conference) if we stay the course.

        Eric has ability but his shooting confidence has left and he hasn't made a jump shot (that I can remember) for a while, which is not that uncommon for a Freshman, but he will be a good shooter imo. Jamie, Dexter, and Poor Bear have has some very nice moments and if they continue to improve, will be very nice players. J.B. not an offensive player and probably that role won't be him for most of his career.

        We do need to improve on defense but the bottom line is that the "grind" of play is just coming to these young players and most don't do as well in February as they do earlier in the year. We can win at home but we won't be a Top 7-8, mainly because we have so many young players and our Seniors and Juco players aren't good enough to lean on. Team. Hopefully, we win enough home games, and maybe a couple of others. Freshmen don't win Away games or play for league Championships.

        Almost 50% of he scoring is gone after this year. Thats a lot.

        Comment


        • AndShock
          AndShock commented
          Editing a comment
          What % of our shots?

        • 1972Shocker
          1972Shocker commented
          Editing a comment
          44.2% of total points scored. 44.4% of our FG Attempts.. 43.1% of FT made and 35.7% of FT attempted.

      • Originally posted by lmor1971 View Post
        Funny how no one calls out Marshall. Blaming MM or SHJ or all new freshman..you guys are so blinded by history that you can't see what is front of you. He is being out coached doesn't know how to coach from behind doesn't know how to coach in this conference. Doesn't see what guys are doing and not doing.

        he is panicking you can see it in his face . Keep watching.

        it is comical how you guys turn on players and not Marshal. He is captain of the ship it is his to own. No one else.
        I have observed that there hasn't been a true PG recruited who actually made it to campus since VanVleet, and that big guys out of HS have been a rarity. I have noted that nearly half of Marshall's recruits "don't work out".

        I believe most posters here realize and understand that Marshall isn't perfect and some fan criticism can occur even among fans who totally support him as our coach.

        That brings us to this year, which is probably at the heart of posts like the one I quoted. Put Shamet and Reaves on this team along with Echenique, and McDuffie and there wouldn't be nearly the problems with the W/L record or with fan comments. The projected starting PG (even though he's actually a SG) went to the NBA. The projected backup PG (even though he's also a SG) left the program. The recruiting priority to mitigate the damage from those losses decommited late in the process. That left Marshall looking to JuCo ranks that had already been heavily recruited by other schools. Marshall picked up the "best available" PG left in the JuCo ranks, and that has not worked out well, even though it's way too early to write Torres off.

        Marshall is "the captain of the ship", but the ship took a torpedo and Marshall is trying to limp the boat to port to make repairs. When most HS players sign in November and JuCo ranks are pretty much recruited and commitments made by March, it's tough to replace the top 3 players who were expected to play PG in the period between April and June.

        It was Linstead who found Midtgaard and convinced Marshall to sign him. I don't think Marshall ever saw AM before he offered. You might notice that Linstead is no longer on the staff. Jones offered scholarships to what seemed like half the state of Florida, but all his offers went to kids already heavily recruited by others and he successfully recruited not a single player. He's gone.

        A whole lot of things had to all go bad at the same time for the season we're having to happen.
        Last edited by Aargh; 1 week ago.
        The future's so bright - I gotta wear shades.
        We like to cut down nets and get sized for championship rings.

        Comment


        • 1989
          1989 commented
          Editing a comment
          I agree 100%. You also have to go back to the fact that injuries made it to where we couldn’t redshirt Nurger like we wanted. If everything went as planned, we would have a core of Shamet, McDuffie, Reaves, and Nurger right now. But since things fell apart, we are left with McDuffie, SHJ, and 9 newcomers. Gregg Marshall wants to get old and stay old. This team is the exact opposite of what he wants in that regard. But the good news is that these guys will grow up. My prediction is that we will be competitive again by 2020 and top 20 by 2021 once these guys get old.

        • Topshock
          Topshock commented
          Editing a comment
          A like is not enough for Aargh's post. Absolutely100% on point

      • Originally posted by Dan View Post
        ... almost all ...freshmen guards are slow to think and are hesitant to make stuff happen...
        I thought I'd cut your post down a bit and get to the relevant parts.In addition to having to think and having to play at D1 pace, the Fr (and newcomers) also have to wonder whether they should take a shot or if they should try to get the ball to SHJ or MM.

        As often as MM and SHJ go straight into "I'm shooting the ball regardless of any defense thrown up against me" mode, those actions make it pretty clear to the newcomers that the Seniors on the team don't really trust them. That leads to a bit of a "chicken or the egg" question. Do the Seniors not trust the newcomers because the newcomers really can't shoot, or do the shooting woes of the newcomers come from a lack of trust from the Seniors?

        The future's so bright - I gotta wear shades.
        We like to cut down nets and get sized for championship rings.

        Comment


        • Watching UCF vs. UCONN. Seeing how effective a simple 2-3 zone can be... why HCGM can’t just simplify that use of zone so that it doesn’t look like mass confusion every time we go into it...

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JVShocker(1) View Post
            If you're a player, a coach, an assistant coach, the girlfriend of a player, radio announcer or play by play guy...GO AWAY - you should not be here reading this. Ever. If you must, do so with a DUMP TRUCK OF SALT.
            You weren't active when we fired up the interview series were ya?

            Kung Wu say: "If Chuck Norris had a coach, his name would be Gregg Marshall."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Kung Wu View Post

              You weren't active when we fired up the interview series were ya?

              Assuming that was sarcasm, but on this board, its hard to tell.

              Let's just say that I have been told of things that may have happened following games that may or may not be common knowledge. I guess it could be confirmed if I were to share what I have heard...because if it were not common knowledge, then the proverbial would hit the fan, yes? I cannot be alone in things that may or may not have happened. Sorry to be cryptic, but I eat beans I don't spill them.

              If I recall correctly, and my memory is not yet all that bad, I was probably one of the first lucky people to get to see Koch Arena after all of the renovation during the Turgeon years, maybe a month or two before casual fan and certainly before our "beloved" newspaper - in fact I would have called it a guided tour. I believe I even shared a few hundred photos at the time. So no, I missed the interviews, but that doesn't make me any less of a fan, though.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Aargh View Post

                I have observed that there hasn't been a true PG recruited who actually made it to campus since VanVleet, and that big guys out of HS have been a rarity. I have noted that nearly half of Marshall's recruits "don't work out".

                I believe most posters here realize and understand that Marshall isn't perfect and some fan criticism can occur even among fans who totally support him as our coach.

                That brings us to this year, which is probably at the heart of posts like the one I quoted. Put Shamet and Reaves on this team along with Echenique, and McDuffie and there wouldn't be nearly the problems with the W/L record or with fan comments. The projected starting PG (even though he's actually a SG) went to the NBA. The projected backup PG (even though he's also a SG) left the program. The recruiting priority to mitigate the damage from those losses decommited late in the process. That left Marshall looking to JuCo ranks that had already been heavily recruited by other schools. Marshall picked up the "best available" PG left in the JuCo ranks, and that has not worked out well, even though it's way too early to write Torres off.

                Marshall is "the captain of the ship", but the ship took a torpedo and Marshall is trying to limp the boat to port to make repairs. When most HS players sign in November and JuCo ranks are pretty much recruited and commitments made by March, it's tough to replace the top 3 players who were expected to play PG in the period between April and June.

                It was Linstead who found Midtgaard and convinced Marshall to sign him. I don't think Marshall ever saw AM before he offered. You might notice that Linstead is no longer on the staff. Jones offered scholarships to what seemed like half the state of Florida, but all his offers went to kids already heavily recruited by others and he successfully recruited not a single player. He's gone.

                A whole lot of things had to all go bad at the same time for the season we're having to happen.
                Donnie Jones did successfully recruit Chance Moore, though!

                Comment


                • Aargh
                  Aargh commented
                  Editing a comment
                  The only way I can justify my post about Jones' recruiting after that is to claim that I didn't consider Moore a "player". That's a pretty weak excuse, but it's the best I've got.

              • Originally posted by ShockCrazy View Post
                Ya'll are crazy. You do realize that not only is Markis our leading scorer, he's our most efficient player this season? Or how about the fact he also has the lowest t/o rate? Stop focusing on the bad with certain players cause you don't like them, it leads to confirmation bias. But yes let's bench our best player who has a chance to make the league(yes he's on the boards) that should really resonate well with recruits.

                Echenique has the best player efficiency rating on the team.

                25.8 Echenique
                21.3 McDuffie
                13.8 Udeze

                if anything Echenique should be the focus of the offense. That might help McDuffie.

                Comment


                • Honestly, I don’t have much issue with GM acting like an a$$. He shouldn’t be happy with the results. Him getting pissed will result in this team getting better faster lol

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Stickboy46 View Post

                    Just saw this too. Great analysis. In all the bad of last night, Poor-Bear was really good. He's very mobile for his size and has now shown some good post moves. If we can just figure out how to consistently get the ball into the post for JE, Poor-Bear, and MU I think we can take that next step. That's a HUGE hurdle with how our guards and seniors play though.
                    To get the ball into the post, replace SHJ with ES and let RT and ES make the entry passes. MM, as a senior, should be able to do it as well.
                    "I not sure that I've ever been around a more competitive player or young man than Fred VanVleet. I like to win more than 99.9% of the people in this world, but he may top me." -- Gregg Marshall 12/23/13
                    ---------------------------------------
                    Remember when Nancy Pelosi said about Obamacare:
                    "We have to pass it, to find out what's in it".

                    A physician called into a radio show and said:
                    "That's the definition of a stool sample."

                    Comment


                    • Aargh
                      Aargh commented
                      Editing a comment
                      But then he wouldn't be able to shoot and impress the NBA scouts.

                    • Downtown Shocker Brown
                      Editing a comment
                      They are no longer looking to be impressed.

                  • Originally posted by JVShocker(1) View Post
                    Assuming that was sarcasm, but on this board, its hard to tell.
                    I think you were reading way too much into my question. Earlier this summer we had some SN interviews with Mike Kennedy and other Shocker personalities -- I don't think you were active when those were going on. The Shocker community definitely keeps their eye on SN and that's a good thing, not a bad thing.

                    Kung Wu say: "If Chuck Norris had a coach, his name would be Gregg Marshall."

                    Comment


                    • SHJ should not be playing more than 5 minutes off the bench. He’s a major liability.

                      Comment


                      • WuDrWu
                        WuDrWu commented
                        Editing a comment
                        If your team is a top 20 type team, I'll agree. On this team, with this talent, you couldn't be more wrong.

                      • MikeKennedyRulZ
                        MikeKennedyRulZ commented
                        Editing a comment
                        There are plenty more talented players on this team. They’re just younger so SHJ gets more of the benefit of the doubt.

                    • SHJ is the best shooter on the team when he takes good shots. He doesn't recognize which ones those are, unfortunately

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